Forum Discussion
77 Replies
- I sure hope that no one reading this thread thinks I am a fan of Fox so called news. Just a bunch of babbling fools and blonde bimbos. However legitimate news sources are reporting that the marines were armed. They are not using the word "stormed"! The National Post and Canadian Press have reported that the marines were armed. Here is another blurb from a sailing magazine:
"Even more important to boats sailing to Mexico is obtaining a 10-Year Temporary Import Permit (TIP) in advance. These are as easy to get online as the visa application, and you get your TIP in about 10 days via DHL. They cost about $50. For whatever reason, Mexican Customs officials, backed by armed but very friendly marines, have suddenly began making the rounds of Mexican marinas making sure all boats have their TIPs, and sometimes working all through the night. They are also making sure that the TIPs, plus all other paperwork, is on file with the marina the boat is in, because the marina is actually responsible for all boats in their facility. So far a lot of boats have been out of compliance, often for one little odd thing or the other, and the Mexican officials have been giving a grace period to comply. But for whatever reason, the TIPs have become a big deal for them now. The penalties for being out of compliance are potentially harsh: 25% of the value of the boat and maybe even seizure. To our knowledge nobody has been fined yet and no boats seized, but the government seems dead serious about this so don’t mess around. "
BTW: From reading the online stories it seems that Mexico has created a new agency to collect taxes. TIP's are somehow on their radar. I wonder if RV's will be next? I also wonder why they don't go after all the Mexican owned autos and boats that are illegal. 100's of thousands!
Moisheh The reporter probably got fired from CNN and just started working with FOX. Give him a while to change the way he was used to things being done!
Yep - a couple weeks working at Fox and this guy will have a total lack of integrity as well as being brain dead like the rest of that crew.Francesca Knowles wrote:
moisheh wrote:
http://www.todaystrucking.com/struggling-truck-giant-seeks-115-billion-loan
Fox News
Associated Press You Tube
https://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/lectronicday.lasso?date=2013-12-20
These are just a few of the articles on the seizure of boats. How would you feel if they came into an RV park looking for a particular illegal RV and they seized every RV in the park and just walked away? Would you be pi---d or would you say they are within their rights? What if you were on vacation in that RV and planned on leaving soon? Mexico should quickly send out some inspectors with the authority to permanently seize the illegal boats and free the others. The longer this lingers the worse it will become.
Moisheh
Moisheh
:S
Thanks for the extra links- Shoulda looked past that "FOX NEWS" nonsense right away!
How come the on-the-scene guy that first wrote about this on December 20th doesn't mention the screamer that Fox starts out with?FOX NEWS wrote:
MEXICO CITY – When heavily armed marines and government tax agents stormed eight marinas on Mexico's Pacific and Caribbean coasts, boaters thought they were witnessing a major drug takedown.
Here's what the "Latitude 38" guy quoted in the Fox story says happened- where does Fox's Armed Invasion come in?
BEGIN QUOTE:
"December 20, 2013 – Mexico Latitude 38
HEADLINE: Is Mexico Committing Nautical Tourism Suicide?
We sure hope not, although thanks to the actions of a new sub-agency of Hacienda (the Mexican IRS) called AGACE, it appears the country is on the verge of doing just that — and even worse, perhaps setting the stage for possible problems with the United States government.
In the last month AGACE, which was created by the new Peña Nieto administration to be auditors for foreign commerce, has been checking the paperwork of foreign boats in 12 marinas in Mexico. To be legal in Mexico without having to pay duty, foreign boat owners are required to possess their boat documentation, proof of clearing into Mexico, and a Temporary Import Permit, and have all these documents on file in the office of whatever marina the boat is in. This is perfectly reasonable.
According to a harbormaster who attended a big meeting in Mexico City yesterday with AGACE, Tourism, and other officials, 338 foreign boats were found to be out of compliance with these rules in just the 12 marinas that were checked. That's a huge number, so let us give you a hint why.
We at Latitude 38, who have undoubtedly been the biggest promoters of nautical tourism to Mexico for the last 30 years, have had our catamaran Profligate put in what's called 'embargo precautorio', or precautionary embargo. It's not that we didn't have our boat documents; we did. It's not that we don't have a Temporary Import Permit; we have the same 20-year permit we've had for 17 years. It's not that we can't prove that we checked into Mexico because we have that document, too.
No, our 'crime' is that we weren't on our boat when AGACE officials, backed by armed Marines, came through the marina checking paperwork. Much of Mexican law is based on Napoleonic Law, where you are considered guilty until you prove yourself innocent. Since we weren't around to show our paperwork, AGACE assumed Profligate was not in compliance with Mexican law (guilty), and thus is now under 'precautionary embargo'.
It gets even more ridiculous. When AGACE officials came around a week later, Doña de Mallorca was aboard, and showed them the documents. Nonetheless, Profligate is still on the embargo list.
Other boats were found to be out of compliance because of misspellings on documents made by officials in the United States or Mexico, because hull identification (HIN) numbers were painted over after many years, because AGACE officials who know nothing about boats didn't know where to look for various identification numbers, and so forth.
Boats under 'precautionary seizure' are not allowed to leave the dock, as they are considered to be like foreign merchandise on which duty hasn't been paid.
There's just one problem with this. Most of the vessels in question are U.S. documented vessels, and it's our understanding that it's illegal to impede the transit of such vessels unless a crime was committed. We can't imagine the U.S. government is going to stand by with hands in pockets if 338 U.S. boats, worth tens millions of dollars, are illegally held for any period of time.
Surely, one would think, these minor problems could quickly be cleared up. Not so. At the meeting in Mexico City yesterday, AGACE gave no timetable for embargoed boats to be "liberated." But we've learned today that AGACE has up to four months, under their rules of operation, to assess the status of boats that have been seized. Consequently, there are cruisers who can't move their boats, and there are foreign boat owners who won't be able to take visiting family and friends sailing over the holidays. The damage to Mexico's reputation will be growing by the day, and right at the height of tourist season.
To say boat owners are pissed off would be an understatement. Both Canadians and Americans are already starting to call their government representatives to protest. If you think marina owners, Mexico Tourism, and other business interests, such as those involved with real estate, like this, you couldn't be more wrong. After all, it perpetuates the image of Mexico being a scary place, where tourists and retirees can't feel safe or believe their assets are secure. We hope this matter is resolved very quickly, as we don't think it accurately reflects on Mexico or even the Mexican government as a whole. But the damage will build with each passing day.
Please stay tuned."
END QUOTE
Guess the Invasion Forces showed up LATER, just in time for Fox to report on it... :R
The reporter probably got fired from CNN and just started working with FOX. Give him a while to change the way he was used to things being done! :B- Never been to Mexico, but I hope to go there...which is why I follow lots of Mexico- focused forums like this one.
And y'all have taught me to take most Mexico-is-bad threads with about a pound of salt. This thread is no different...a whole lot of hollering from a bunch of folks that got caught not abiding by the rules becomes a Huge Anti- Tourist Conspiracy. The only thing that's missing so far is dark allegations of Huge Payoffs to corrupt politicians.
And I'd still appreciate an exact quote from some source- ANY source- that supports Fox's assertion that "heavily armed marines and government tax agents stormed eight marinas".
Unless of course going into a Marina office and looking at records is considered "storming a marina"...as you point out, I have no personal experience of the actual culture down there, so perhaps I place the wrong interpretation on the words. - I only posted the Fox story for those that like to see the "right" side of the story. I think that is the first time I have ever gone to a Fox website. Supposedly the NY times and some news agencies will be carrying the story next week. By then it will read 3800 boats! Francesca : Latitude also posted that there were armed marines. This is not much ado about nothing. You can state that as it does not affect your life! But it might get cleared up very quickly with all that bad publicity. BTW Francesca: I have never seen you post anything about Mexico. Have you ever RV'd in Mexico? Taken a boat to Mexico or know anything about Mexico?
Moisheh briansue wrote:
Perhaps there is another perspective to this? News reports? Seem to be from the same source? Of course we know everything Fox says is fact!!???
The only place any "armed invasion" etc. takes place is in that opening paragraph and in the headline of the Youtube video.
Unless all those grey haired folks moaning about This Terrible Tragedy on that video are those who did the "seizures", there's no evidence any "armed agents storming marinas" invasion ever happened.
Much ado about nothing...- Perhaps there is another perspective to this? News reports? Seem to be from the same source? Of course we know everything Fox says is fact!!???
How do we define "heavily armed"? My first RV trip through Mexico in 1971 I saw "heavily armed" guards in many areas including every bank. They carry what appear to be automatic rifles. All police and military in Mexico carry these types of weapons. We see them on the roads and walking down the beaches. After all the years of travel in Mexico we no longer see this as in the least bit unusual. But I wasn't there so I do not know. Anyone who spends any time at all in Mexico has seen these "heavily armed" agents all over Mexico.
So what other sources of info about this are there? What alternatives do the boat owners have? What does any of this really mean? Can any boat owners out there provide this forum with some very detailed and specific facts about this? Did some Mexican Gov't official really mess up this badly as NJ Gov. Christie compadres did closing the George Washington Bridge? Will this be straightened out and cleared up soon? Will boats make a mass exodus from Mexico? Will we ever know or will we just spread rumors? I have no idea and no opinion - how can I have an opinion if I wasn't there??? moisheh wrote:
Fox News
Associated Press You Tube
https://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/lectronicday.lasso?date=2013-12-20
These are just a few of the articles on the seizure of boats. How would you feel if they came into an RV park looking for a particular illegal RV and they seized every RV in the park and just walked away? Would you be pi---d or would you say they are within their rights? What if you were on vacation in that RV and planned on leaving soon? Mexico should quickly send out some inspectors with the authority to permanently seize the illegal boats and free the others. The longer this lingers the worse it will become.
Moisheh
Yep. That kind of publicity definetly can't help things, but I wonder if there is more to the story. Either way I hope it gets sorted out quick.moisheh wrote:
http://www.todaystrucking.com/struggling-truck-giant-seeks-115-billion-loan
Fox News
Associated Press You Tube
https://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/lectronicday.lasso?date=2013-12-20
These are just a few of the articles on the seizure of boats. How would you feel if they came into an RV park looking for a particular illegal RV and they seized every RV in the park and just walked away? Would you be pi---d or would you say they are within their rights? What if you were on vacation in that RV and planned on leaving soon? Mexico should quickly send out some inspectors with the authority to permanently seize the illegal boats and free the others. The longer this lingers the worse it will become.
Moisheh
Moisheh
:S
Thanks for the extra links- Shoulda looked past that "FOX NEWS" nonsense right away!
How come the on-the-scene guy that first wrote about this on December 20th doesn't mention the screamer that Fox starts out with?FOX NEWS wrote:
MEXICO CITY – When heavily armed marines and government tax agents stormed eight marinas on Mexico's Pacific and Caribbean coasts, boaters thought they were witnessing a major drug takedown.
Here's what the "Latitude 38" guy quoted in the Fox story says happened- where does Fox's Armed Invasion come in?
BEGIN QUOTE:
"December 20, 2013 – Mexico Latitude 38
HEADLINE: Is Mexico Committing Nautical Tourism Suicide?
We sure hope not, although thanks to the actions of a new sub-agency of Hacienda (the Mexican IRS) called AGACE, it appears the country is on the verge of doing just that — and even worse, perhaps setting the stage for possible problems with the United States government.
In the last month AGACE, which was created by the new Peña Nieto administration to be auditors for foreign commerce, has been checking the paperwork of foreign boats in 12 marinas in Mexico. To be legal in Mexico without having to pay duty, foreign boat owners are required to possess their boat documentation, proof of clearing into Mexico, and a Temporary Import Permit, and have all these documents on file in the office of whatever marina the boat is in. This is perfectly reasonable.
According to a harbormaster who attended a big meeting in Mexico City yesterday with AGACE, Tourism, and other officials, 338 foreign boats were found to be out of compliance with these rules in just the 12 marinas that were checked. That's a huge number, so let us give you a hint why.
We at Latitude 38, who have undoubtedly been the biggest promoters of nautical tourism to Mexico for the last 30 years, have had our catamaran Profligate put in what's called 'embargo precautorio', or precautionary embargo. It's not that we didn't have our boat documents; we did. It's not that we don't have a Temporary Import Permit; we have the same 20-year permit we've had for 17 years. It's not that we can't prove that we checked into Mexico because we have that document, too.
No, our 'crime' is that we weren't on our boat when AGACE officials, backed by armed Marines, came through the marina checking paperwork. Much of Mexican law is based on Napoleonic Law, where you are considered guilty until you prove yourself innocent. Since we weren't around to show our paperwork, AGACE assumed Profligate was not in compliance with Mexican law (guilty), and thus is now under 'precautionary embargo'.
It gets even more ridiculous. When AGACE officials came around a week later, Doña de Mallorca was aboard, and showed them the documents. Nonetheless, Profligate is still on the embargo list.
Other boats were found to be out of compliance because of misspellings on documents made by officials in the United States or Mexico, because hull identification (HIN) numbers were painted over after many years, because AGACE officials who know nothing about boats didn't know where to look for various identification numbers, and so forth.
Boats under 'precautionary seizure' are not allowed to leave the dock, as they are considered to be like foreign merchandise on which duty hasn't been paid.
There's just one problem with this. Most of the vessels in question are U.S. documented vessels, and it's our understanding that it's illegal to impede the transit of such vessels unless a crime was committed. We can't imagine the U.S. government is going to stand by with hands in pockets if 338 U.S. boats, worth tens millions of dollars, are illegally held for any period of time.
Surely, one would think, these minor problems could quickly be cleared up. Not so. At the meeting in Mexico City yesterday, AGACE gave no timetable for embargoed boats to be "liberated." But we've learned today that AGACE has up to four months, under their rules of operation, to assess the status of boats that have been seized. Consequently, there are cruisers who can't move their boats, and there are foreign boat owners who won't be able to take visiting family and friends sailing over the holidays. The damage to Mexico's reputation will be growing by the day, and right at the height of tourist season.
To say boat owners are pissed off would be an understatement. Both Canadians and Americans are already starting to call their government representatives to protest. If you think marina owners, Mexico Tourism, and other business interests, such as those involved with real estate, like this, you couldn't be more wrong. After all, it perpetuates the image of Mexico being a scary place, where tourists and retirees can't feel safe or believe their assets are secure. We hope this matter is resolved very quickly, as we don't think it accurately reflects on Mexico or even the Mexican government as a whole. But the damage will build with each passing day.
Please stay tuned."
END QUOTE
Guess the Invasion Forces showed up LATER, just in time for Fox to report on it... :R- Fox News
Associated Press You Tube
https://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/lectronicday.lasso?date=2013-12-20
These are just a few of the articles on the seizure of boats. How would you feel if they came into an RV park looking for a particular illegal RV and they seized every RV in the park and just walked away? Would you be pi---d or would you say they are within their rights? What if you were on vacation in that RV and planned on leaving soon? Mexico should quickly send out some inspectors with the authority to permanently seize the illegal boats and free the others. The longer this lingers the worse it will become.
Moisheh
