Ontario License Plate - Still hard to get!!!!

Friends got stopped by an OPP officer last week. They drive a dually but they are exempt pulling their 36 foot 5th wheel as per discussion above ( older and under 6000 kilos). However they were pulling their enclosed small utility trailer to pick up their motorcycle. They can pull the 5th wheel but not the utility trailer without a safety inspection of both truck and trailer. $250 fine. $100 each to inspect trailer and truck and $2500 for brake job on the truck - planned for when they leave for the south but had to do now!!! OPP are on the lookout. Beware.

Commutator wrote:
For some reason, and MTO staff doesn't seem to be pleased about it either, police forces have started enforcing many things that were traditionally handled only by MTO enforcement officers. Police enforce the Highway Traffic Act. They often aren't even aware of such policies that the MTO adopted over time. So MTO removed these to avoid conflicting messages. That made things a little worse for some RVers.

...Fred

In this day and age of 'user fees' (thank Mike Harris and his No-Sense Revolution) local Police and Fire Dept's have come up with lots of creative ways of 'increasing revenues'.

Regional police forces creating commercial vehicle enforcement units and having regular patrol units target commercial vehicles, especially pickups that traditionally flew under the radar, has resulted in huge numbers of tickets.

In years past the F350, F450 and F550 trucks very very rarely ever got stopped for inspection, usually only when the load was something that really caught your eye.

In the last few years it's become so rampant that we've had binders made up for each truck with all the necessary documents, including copies of relevant laws and regulations in the back, in plastic pouches in order to speed up the amount of time our trucks and drivers spend on the side of the road while an officer tries to find a reason for a ticket.

The biggest number of problems seem to center around the CVOR system, the police just don't seem to understand it.

An MTO manager told me in 06 that 6000kg rule was coming. At the time I was considering a cab & chassis with a custom body. I decided to go with 3500 pickup to stay legit and just live with the lower payload.

When I asked an MTO manager recently if changes were coming for RVs because I noted the RV FAQs had been removed from the MTO website. He told me the issue was that some of those FAQs were just policies adopted by the MTO staff rather than actual laws. For some reason, and MTO staff doesn't seem to be pleased about it either, police forces have started enforcing many things that were traditionally handled only by MTO enforcement officers. Police enforce the Highway Traffic Act. They often aren't even aware of such policies that the MTO adopted over time. So MTO removed these to avoid conflicting messages. That made things a little worse for some RVers.

...Fred

I decided to downsize to a small travel trailer to avoid all this nonsense.

I chose not to let some technocrat at the Ministry of Transportation of Ontario complicate my life.

I will save $$$ on fuel, wear and tear on my truck, and the new unit will be much easier to sell in the future. So far, do not miss my 34 footer.

I helps I got more than I wanted on my trade in and a killer deal on the new unit with lots of bells and whistles my 2006 fiver did not have.

gitane59 wrote:

Pipeman wrote:
Hone eagle, for those of us towing our own personal trailers/5ers( non commercial). The CVOR exemption is for the GVWR on the door of the PU truck. If you are 6000 kilos and below you're exempt.

Wow I see I missed a great discussion for CVOR's, RGW, AR licensing and the whole lot.
Let me throw another wrinkle into the equation. For model year 2015 the only one of the big three making 3500 or 350 series dually light duty pickups with GVWR equal to or less than 6000kg is GM. Both Ram and Ford have increased their 2015GVWR above 6000kg eliminating the personal use exemption from the CVOR.
This whole mess is one of many factors that has caused the DW and I to decide move to a Class 2 diesel pusher and toad in a year or 2 and then all I will need is the DZ license. No more yellow safety stickers, no more CVOR mess, no more RGW mess, no more hassles with (am I or am I not) commercial at the Bluewater bridge. It's a******shoot what they want to charge us to cross with our dually truck. The bridge fee rules are applied differently almost every trip across with the dually truck

Hopefully with the big 3 screaming and RV dealers associations saying WTF ! Ontario will have a re think.
-not holding breath-
But I can't blame you Gitane

Pipeman wrote:
Hone eagle, for those of us towing our own personal trailers/5ers( non commercial). The CVOR exemption is for the GVWR on the door of the PU truck. If you are 6000 kilos and below you're exempt.

Wow I see I missed a great discussion for CVOR's, RGW, AR licensing and the whole lot.
Let me throw another wrinkle into the equation. For model year 2015 the only one of the big three making 3500 or 350 series dually light duty pickups with GVWR equal to or less than 6000kg is GM. Both Ram and Ford have increased their 2015 GVWR above 6000kg eliminating the personal use exemption from the CVOR.
This whole mess is one of many factors that has caused the DW and I to decide move to a Class A diesel pusher and toad in a year or 2 and then all I will need is the DZ license. No more yellow safety stickers, no more CVOR mess, no more RGW mess, no more hassles with (am I or am I not) commercial at the Bluewater bridge. It's a******shoot what they want to charge us to cross with our dually truck. The bridge fee rules are applied differently almost every trip across with the dually truck

Thanks !

-reading-

I guess I was asleep and missed this whole discussion. I started one in May in the Truck Campers forum but it didn't get any traction. In the meantime I've been researching on my own. I'm pretty confident in my understanding, but that won't help you in court so do your own research. I also spoke to several MTO managers and one was really knowledgeable on the rules related to RVs. What he said matched what I'd read in the Act and Regulations. Not true of the others I spoke with.

I drive a 3500 with a truck camper and pull a largish cargo trailer. Like Pipeman, I went to MTO to bump my RGW to 11000kg and was told they've been instructed to ensure I have a CVOR. I explained the personal use pickup exemption in Reg 424/97 Part 1 1.2. This exempts from CVOR (section 16 of the Act) a pickup with GVWR <= 6000kg AND came with and still has an OEM box being used for non-commercial purposes. I ticked the exemption box on the back of their form, signed it, and left with my new sticker but much less money than I arrived with. Note that Reg 199/07 Part 1 1. has the same exemption for log books and such. See definitions of "commercial motor vehicle" and "pickup truck".

I too believe a lot of people pulling RVs with pickups don't realize the RGW of the truck has to include the truck & trailer, unless the weight on the trailer axles is only 2800kg or less. Even then the hitch or pin weight must be covered by the RGW.

A lot of people think a pickup with a truck camper is considered a motorhome and thus RGW and such doesn't apply. That used to be the case but they've discontinued this policy which is why I couldn't find if on their website any longer. Hence my need to up my RGW considerably this year. If you want to see what the fees are for higher weights see here.

As pointed out, motorhomes and camper trailers do not need yellow stickers. However pickups that are over 4500kg of combined gross weight (either actual, registered, or sum of GVWRs) do require them. (Reg 611/90 8.) If you have a toy hauler the floor space used by vehicles, animals, equipment and such must be less than half. (Reg 611/90 2.2.)

Also as pointed out, the weight limits of your license class must be respected regardless of whether commercial, personal, motorhome, or whatever.

One thing that was missed that might be useful for some is an exception to the class A or AR requirement. If you have a fifth wheel RV (without air brakes) and you meet the personal use pickup exemption conditions the FW can exceed 4600kg with your class G, provided total weight is under 11000kg of course. (Reg 340/94 section 4)

I hope I didn't mess any of this up and others will find it useful.

...Fred

Thanks for the offer Ralf. It's not going to happen in my lifetime. She's pretty set in this instance. I do enjoy reading the HDT page and a few other trailer pages as well. Stay safe.

I can take her for a ride ? ,better yet my wife can.

BTW my wife said nope .no way ever ,not gonna happen. Then we tried it and she loves it ,loves the closet loves the shoe cubby ,built herself a little house back there.