Prepare Yourself For 16% Tax Added Onto Food And Medicine

40 some years ago my aunt taught me that it is customary to give the beggars in Mexico about 10 centavos. Mostly this would be the old women sitting on the curb with their had out. I call them "old crones" but I looked it up and maybe they aren't crones depending on your definition. Anyway, my aunt told me that we are their social security as they have none. I watch and see Mexicans handing coins to these old women so if I have coins I still give them to the old folks. Never ever to the beggar kids or anyone who appears capable of doing some work. Only the very old. Now we have been told that in San Miguel de Allende some crime organization brings these old women into town to beg and then takes their money at the end of the day. I do not know if this is gringo urban myth or if it is true. I know the old women have been there forever and I kind of doubt someone dreamed this up as a way to make money - using the old women then taking their money. So I still give them a peso or so. Maybe they really need it. Even if some are there for criminals I still think plenty of them need some help.

Then there are the guys in the parking lot - like at the grocery store. I have watched them sometimes when I wait in the car while Sue goes in to shop. These guys watch the cars and pick up the litter - they find a place for you to park and direct traffic helping you park - and do the same when you come out as they hold up traffic so you can back out - and help you stow you bags etc. Some also have cardboard to put over your windshield to keep the Sun out. Some will wash your car. They are the parking lot security force. I see the Mexicans tip them a peso or so so I tip them too. These guys created a job for themselves and found a way to work to make a living. They might be called bums in the US but in Mexico they are entrepreneurs - they made something out of nothing. Whether some people think so or not these guys provide a service - which is probably why the stores do not run them off and the Mexican people tip them. These guys hustle and work for a living even though some would not call this a real job.

We see many in Mexico who cannot find a "real" job so they create one and some of them even seem to make a halfway decent living. There are guys on the side of the road with bottles and rags who run out to clean windshields and people tip them - I don't want their dirty rags on our car but do appreciate their effort to create a job. We even see guys filling potholes with shovels and dirt hoping to get paid a little for smoothing the road a bit. Roadside stands and fruit sellers and the list goes on. Mexicans who cannot find a job find ways to create a job and to do some work. They get respect and self respect - though I occasionally see a disrespectful gringo dis-ing them. Lots of Mexican people find ways to earn some money to pay the small amount they need to pay for healthcare.

As visitors we need to understand there could be differences between our culture and the cultures we might visit.

Have you read the requirements for Seguro Popular? Have you seen the cost table based on income? Have you applied or assisted someone in the process of applying for Seguro Popular? I doubt it.

The table is located on their website. The lowest level income listed is based on a 60 pesos a day as income which I doubt anyone who is working formally for an employer makes. If so, they pay 240 pesos a year for two parents and their children under 16 and can also included their parents over age 65. That comes out to .66 centavos a day. The idea is to develop the culture of paying for things, in reality it is a token payment. In essence, SP is free.

Do I feel for those who "work" on the street? Depends on their situation. There are jobs, just like in the U.S. for people who suffer some physical handicap. We meet lots of people in our travels with missing limbs who have jobs, a small business, or a workshop. If it is someone who is past the working age and may have done or not done what most do in life, I give them a hand, a big hand. We pay their electric bill, provide water and LP gas for those around us. In our little town, we also have a food bank for the elderly.

If I see a woman with a baby and a prescription in her hand, I offer to take her to the pharmacy to pay for the prescription. Out of all my years here, no one has taken me up on the offer.

You can compare the U.S. to Mexico based on its current failing conditions. The U.S. healthcare system began years ago to turn people away, not providing care for those with cancer and other terminal illnesses. That's why the American Cancer Society exists, Red Cross, the Shriner's. And the same organizations exist in Mexico, Cruz Roja, Club Rotario, Club de Leones, Cruz Verde, Caritas. Many, many Mexican doctors provide services for needy people for free. We have Telethons, charities that raise money for breast cancer victims, Down Syndrome, the list goes on.

I don't know what else you want. Do you want Mexico to go the way of the U.S. where everything is paid for on a credit card that is eventually maxed out its limit to the tune of 17 trillion dollars and now the middle class is disappearing it is getting worse?

Not me. Make do with what we have and continue to live within our means.

Again, too few facts.

Why should it be free: Because Mexico is not the USA. There is almost no social safety net. How do you expect the poor and the working poor to pay for health care? Do you expect the person who exists on 100 pesos a day to pay for medicine and health care. Most cannot even afford Seguro Popular. For some one who lives in Mexico do you not see the poor, the beggars with no legs, the mentally ill begging.? Have a heart! Mexico is not a true 3rd world country but look at the statistics and you will quickly see that although the country is rich most of that money does not trickle down past the growing middle class. And don't give me that garbage about getting an education. Do you think a young man who lives in a cardboard shack is going to get an education. His parents need him to work and contribute. If he goes to school he will be ridiculed for his ratty clothes, etc. Although some of this may apply to other countries we are talking about Mexico and Mexicans. The fact that people in Kentucky live in shacks does not make the life of a poor Mexican any better.

Moisheh

In a public hospital in Mexico you do have to stay in the hospital until you can come up with the money or show a payment plan. The pressure is on to pay and they will eventually reduce the amount, have the person sign a pagare (IOU) and the last step is for the family to go to the local news (and we see that often) asking for help in paying the bill and eventually the bed is needed and the person leaves paying what they can.

Again, this is a public forum and people who may not travel to Mexico will misinterpret the exaggerated comments listed here such as, "armed guards" will keep you from leaving. They are not SWAT teams with high powered weapons. They are "Pinkerton" security guards who generally don't carry a weapon and if they do it is an old rusty pistol from the security agency that is contracted by the hospital.

Again, it is a public hospital and their job is to keep the place running. They will do what they have to get the patient or family to pay. If not, they would not be in existence and then no poor person would receive any care.

And besides, Why should it be free? If you live in the U.S. aren't you fed up with the current system where everyone is on the take from the doctors, hospital administrators, to the nurse practitioners, rehab sharks, suppliers, and the list goes on and on.

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
If you have a serious medical issue in the USA you go to the emergency room. Without insurance. No cost. Minimal care. Go to a hospital in Mexico and they will STABILIZE YOU. Run up a hospital bill and ARMED GUARDS accompany you to the payment window. No money and you cannot leave. I just went through this in 2011 in La Paz. NOSE TO NOSE with the armed guards. Seguro Popular.

Mexwanderer, sometimes it's difficult to sort out what you are talking about. Living without insurance in the US sucks, and so does living on Seguro Popular in Mexico.

In the US you'd get - (didn't need to try, having Canadian Medicare) - a "stabilization" plus a little more. Then they will bill you if you are US or Canadian national, and the bill will be HUGE even for a minimal treatment. Poorest in the US would - for the most part - have Medicare so there wouldn't be much to pay. They won't try and bill Mex citizen because they know he'll leave their jurisdiction immediately. As a result, cost to the system is high, though there are also other reasons why it's gone bankrupt.

In Mex in a public hospital if you are gringo with no Seguro Popular or private plan, you'll get a "stabilization" (= keeping you from dying immediately), and then they will kick you out or ask to pay for further treatment. If you are Mex citizen, then you have Seguro, so you are treated without pay, unless Seguro doesn't cover something. Treatment can still be "minimal", because the whole system is "minimal". I talked to local "gente" and gathered a depressing picture - long waits and not always free. If you run the bill - armed guards and jail. They don't sue you, this isn't the US.

Foreigners raving about Mex universal health care (= Seguro Popular and IMSS) are forgetting that 5 grand for a minor heart surgery in public hospital - when it's not covered by SP - is HUGE money for a Mexican. Not to mention the quality of most public hospitals. US expat with SP in this case would go North and use his US Medicare, still biyatching about US healthcare :)... Mex citizen - don't know. Those close to the border would try and abuse the US system, others would do nothing. Not an enviable position either way.

Different points of view, few facts.

How can anyone compare the Mexican health system to that of the USA. Where do Mexicans who live in border states go for health care? Yup, they cross into the USA and burden the hospitals. BTW, that care is free. Not only free but it is real health care with modern equipment. Chris: As a semi retired teacher do you get your health care at ISSTE or IMSS? Mexico wanderer is correct. We have been to private hospitals and they block the doors until you pay! We have been to USA hospitals and they bill either us or our insurance. We do continue to use CIMA hospital and their Drs. as they are first class. Prices are higher than in Canada but less than the USA. IMSS is a whole other story!

Moisheh

MexicoWanderer, I don't think you get it. It doesn't matter any more where you live. The results are the same. What is the difference between a near global financial crippling caused by a two-party system in a country who cares little about healthcare and creates an on line nightmare with a three-tier healthcare system touted to protect the poor versus any other country like Mexico and its healthcare system. Your stories are exagarated and leave people here on rv net who have no idea of what Mexican healthcare is all about with stories they will pass on around the campfire and take as fact. Sure you can't leave a hospital without paying,why should you? If you don't work in the formal market, don't have coverage, someone has to pay. I pay my Mexican taxes every month. That's why I don't live in the U.S., too many parasites. That's what has cripped and destroyed the healthcare system in the U.S. And believe me, I am not a wealthy person, earning a teacher's wage in Mexico and you know what that is.

They are both corrupt and we are all on our own. Neither system works, neither system is fair. When it comes to money it never will be. We make do with what we have.

I'm not sure what you mean about "loading the dice". This forum is not a competition in "one-upsmanship" it is an internet forum where we share opinions and we all have one. I get slaughtered here because people want to believe what they read here and some have agendas against Mexico because it's not what it used to be, good and bad. I have shared my views and my opinions just like everyone else. They may not be what the majority wants to believe. Being a voting citizen of a country doesn't strengthen your opinion. I suffer all the same things you do as a permanent resident. I don't know if you work and pay taxes but I have paid taxes here since 1985 and receive little if nothing from it just like I did in the U.S.

All I want is the truth to be known, not be exceptional stories. The overall system for the amount that we pay, we receive a fair return. Corruption is rampant and that includes all the American countries. I think the world has seen a display of that corruption over the last month. And guess what? Nobody seems to care because nobody has done anything about it. Get my point?

The plan is called SEGURO POPULAR.

qtla9111, may I ask you if you are inferring that "Either You Are With Me 100% Or You Are Against Me 100%?

I am for a Mexico that does not have the brother of the president depositing ONE HUNDRED EIGHTY MILLION DOLLARS into Swiss bank accounts, under aliases, then when the accounts are discovered claiming the 6-years of earnings were due to "SHREWD INVESTMENTS"
He was just released or "clearing" pending release for "Lack Of Evidence" under the renewed PRI leadership.

Being that I VOTE in Mexico because I am a citizen of Mexico I am entitled to criticize. Do a FAST workup of Mexican government official's lifestyles versus their reported salaries and you see "It Does Not Fit".

Mexico is NOT THE USA. The poor in in the USA puts them damned near lower middle class in Mexico.

You loaded the dice in your comparison gain. The healthcare issue in the USA has to do with failed lawyers in government running or should I say ruining health care. Git news for you. If you have a serious medical issue in the USA you go to the emergency room. Without insurance. No cost. Minimal care. Go to a hospital in Mexico and they will STABILIZE YOU. Run up a hospital bill and ARMED GUARDS accompany you to the payment window. No money and you cannot leave. I just went through this in 2011 in La Paz. NOSE TO NOSE with the armed guards. Seguro Popular. Sorry to blow your fantasy.

Funny that a lot of people like to criticize Mexico and at the same time live here because they can't afford to live in the U.S. or Canada. SMA, PV, Guadalajara,etc. are full of them. Mexico isn't perfect, but it's better than living in a country where you can't get healthcare or even die because you have no insurance. Mexico even came up with a plan to cover those who work in the informal market who don't have IMSS.

Now if you would like to tear that comment apart I would be willing to listen.