buying campground
I am looking to buy a campground that has closed. Having a hard time finding them. Any suggestions?
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64 Replies
2012Coleman wrote:
westernrvparkowner wrote:
Really?? Ya think so???
Supporting any business idea simply because it is someone's dream is irresponsible. Most of the responses here have been pretty spot on.
Here is the original question.jkhorner wrote:
I am looking to buy a campground that has closed. Having a hard time finding them. Any suggestions?
The OP wants to know where to look for CGs for sale. He didn't ask for your advice on running a business or a validation of his idea. He also didn't ask if buying a closed park is a good idea. None of these respondants knows the OP's financial situation or business experience - again, his question had nothing to do with that. Later in the thread, he states that he wants to start from scratch. Who are you to tell him if that makes sense or not?
He's not asking you to support his business idea - he's coming to a place to where a simple question shoul dbe able to be answered.
So no - most of the responses have not been spot on.
Seriously - get over yourselves.
When you open yourself up to ask for advice, people give advice. If you are asking the wrong question, it is perfectly acceptable and appropriate to clarify that.
To blindly urge them off the edge of a cliff may technically be answering thier question, it's certainly not helpful.
If he really knows what he's doing, it is highly unlikely he would be asking a question the way he did. If we were getting it wrong, a reasonable presumption is he would come back and correct any misconceptions.- OPer....Good luck on your search, I hope you find your answer. As for the people that make sounding like running an RV park is full time 24/7 job, I disagree. There are plenty of small parks in our travels that have anywhere from 9-40 spaces. They don't do a bang up, party every day, type of business, but they're the sit back, relax, put your feet up and rest from driving type of parks. THOSE are the ones we're looking for. We don't avail ourselves of the pool, hot tub, dances, etc.....so we LIKE the quiet small RV parks.
My only suggestion to OPer.....if you find one, and have to regrade the sites, and can do it, PLEASE put them at an angle ......why are all the parks (or most) having people park their rigs at a 90 degree angle???? That's HARD!!!!! - At one time I was a fanatical fan of short track auto racing. Then I got the opportunity to run a couple local race tracks. Ended up doing that for three years.
Made very little money over the long run. Kind of disappointing taking in $35-45,000 per weekend, and having less than $1,000 after expenses - sometimes running negative.
And almost all my time seemed to be spent on petty complaints. There were a lot of great moments (such as taking $129,812 in cash into the bank on Monday morning, and they would not take the deposit until an armored car arrived), and a constant grind of negativity.
I don't know how much your desire to own a campground is impacted by your enjoyment of camping / RVing, however if that is a primary focus - a word of caution.
The very best way to ruin your enjoyment of a hobby or activity - is to get involved in it professionally.
If running a campground is a professional goal - great. If it is a hobby / recreational goal - be wary. westernrvparkowner wrote:
Really?? Ya think so???
Supporting any business idea simply because it is someone's dream is irresponsible. Most of the responses here have been pretty spot on.
Here is the original question.jkhorner wrote:
I am looking to buy a campground that has closed. Having a hard time finding them. Any suggestions?
The OP wants to know where to look for CGs for sale. He didn't ask for your advice on running a business or a validation of his idea. He also didn't ask if buying a closed park is a good idea. None of these respondants knows the OP's financial situation or business experience - again, his question had nothing to do with that. Later in the thread, he states that he wants to start from scratch. Who are you to tell him if that makes sense or not?
He's not asking you to support his business idea - he's coming to a place to where a simple question shoul dbe able to be answered.
So no - most of the responses have not been spot on.
Seriously - get over yourselves.eubank wrote:
Ah, ever heard of retiring? Getting old and wanting to quit working?
:)
LynnBobR wrote:
westernrvparkowner wrote:
There are many reasons why a business would close, but I haven't seen or heard of any that were successful and just shut the doors
Of all comments stated, truer words have not been said.
Not too many retiree's just lock the gate and walk away...especially with a buisness that has a lot of capital tied up in property.- Location Location Locaton........ We often (for 20 years) have gone to a mega campground. It started in the 1970s as undeveloped land...... But a couple had vision The land was 300 acres or land on the ocean south of Myrtle Beach. He was 50 years old when it was started.
He built the sites big for RVs of the time now an RV of 40 ft is not uncommon. He built his home in the park and ran it til his death at nearly 90, his wife pass the same year, now his daughters took it over...... He took it from undeveloped land into what it is today with 400 employees Imagine starting with 30 campsites and being able to grow to just under 900 sites not including the over 2500 permanent sites. A golf cart store, RV Sale & Service Center, Golf Course, They store about 2000 camping trailers, Camp Store, Laundry Mat & Service, Snack Bar, the Arcade the is huge, Nature Center, Pools, Putt Putt, Even have their own non denomination Church service with a full time Pastor, & land..... they even lease land to a mini Walmart across the road...............
But it didn't stop there Open Year round they didn't just sit back & take in money......... The saw a need or want in Halloween weekend Took a light weekend & put on a full weekend of costume contests Kids, Adults even Dogs, Trick or treating, Decorating & more & grew it into 3 full weekends of a nearly full campground. Christmas, Thanksgiving, Easter, are becoming the same. Most of the summer weeks are or soon will be, booked up.... Some say it has gotten too big , maybe but they keep making improvements, and seem to have no lack of business.
Part of what I am saying is you can't just build it & sit back & relax....... either you or employees have to keep it going & growing...... - You might look into Big Chief RV Park north of Coffeyville, Kansas. I think it is still open, but is a good candidate for being closed soon, when Amazon shuts down the distribution center whose workers the park now serves.
This one is just a RV park for seasonal long term residents, a long way from being a multi-use destination campground (like a KOA or Yogi Bear) but seasonal workers parks are a bigger business than recreational destinations in this part of Kansas.
Coffeyville has at least two special events, the late rodeo spilling over into the surrounding area and filling parks until the Amazon seasonals started coming in.
The adjacent Amazon property (likely to be dumped back on the city-county as industrial park) has potential to be developed into a destination. It is big enough for something like an indoor water park; these have become pretty successful in other parts of the country, and the nearest is more than three hours away in Kansas City. If it were in Oklahoma one of the tribes might figure out how to make it a casino, but Kansas has been fighting hard against that sort of property conversion and restricts casinos to actual reservations.
I've known two generations of ownership at three of the RV resorts I frequently use. Successful new owners have included non-operating owners of multiple RV properties, and early retirement middle managers and previously successful entrepreneurs who have sold their previous business and were looking for something "more relaxing" or "low pressure." But in all these cases, they were buying a thriving business with a good clientele (paying for that too, of course) and coming in with enough money to make significant improvements looking toward becoming profitable in 3-5 years.
If the park or campground is closed, you do need to understand why. If it is just a RV park, sometimes it has just been bypassed (like a motel on the old highway) and you need to make it attractive enough draw people off the new highway. If it is a campground, you need to figure out what went wrong with the camping experience, try to bring that back. Location near highways and junctions is less important for campgrounds, people looking for that experience also like to get away from highway noise. - Recently, I saw a closed ex-KOA park in my neck of the woods. Upon inspection, I noticed that the work required to bring it back to acceptable standards was not worth it:
1: All sewage, electrical, and water would have to be brought up to code. This is not cheap, and more expensive than just trenching the lines on pristine ground.
2: The park closed before Wi-Fi was mainstream. A decent Wi-fi setup costs in the five digit range, minimum, for antennas, routers, switches, firewalls, security appliances, and access points. I'd probably also have to trench and add wired Ethernet connections for long term residents.
3: I'd have to do a lot of restoration to make the pool safe, clean, and operable, the former "Kabins" something inhabitable by people other than squatters and meth-heads, the bath-house up to par, and the main office a nice place for people to work at.
4: I'd have to recertify the above ground propane tank and make sure it complies with the new Texas laws. Then, get all employees DOT certified to operate the pump.
5: I'd have to have a 24 hour store with at least one, if not two clerks.
6: I'd have to build additional facilities, like a restaurant, laundromat, meeting hall, computer room, and other core things expected.
7: I'd have to find some employees.
8: I'd have to put money into security, be it a 24/7 patrol, fences, and other items. If the neighborhood/area has security issues, I'd have to spend money on entrance/exit gates, and CCTV cameras.
The total cost to get this improved to a place that is camp worthy would be over 2-3 million bucks. For that price, I could get with KOA, buy some unimproved land, pay them that much cash, and have a pristine, new campground with a brand name. westernrvparkowner wrote:
TenOC wrote:
Got to disagree here. Parks can be very profitable. But you have to run them as businesses. As for long hours, only somewhat true. If you have a reasonable sized park, hiring help is very feasible. Yes, if you only have 30 sites, you are going to be it. But the daily operations do not really take much labor. And, many parks are seasonal, so you take those 70 hour summer work weeks in exchange for 5 hour weeks in the winter. Not a bad exchange.donn0128 wrote:
Do you really want to work 100 hours a week for less than minimum wage? Sounds really romantic, but the investment in time and money can be huge. And the rewards minimal at best. At the worst, poor managment, location, or any number of other factors could wipe you complete out financially.
Invest the money into mutual funds and let someone else do the work. Or if you really want to WORK be a campground host at one of the national parks. That way you can enjoy someone knocking on your door at 3:00AM complaining about no toilet paper in the bath house. . . .:Z
A couple of places people get into trouble are in hired labor and pricing. Some park owners hire out all the labor. If you can't dig up a broken pipe or repair a leaky faucet you probably shouldn't own a park. Hiring a plumber, a carpenter or an excavation company for every drip or crack will quickly place you on the road to financial problems.
Owners also need to realize they need to price for profit. Too many parks fear losing a customer or two over a couple of dollars increase in price. That price increase is earned over every camper night, a dollar increase in price at a smaller park will return a thousand or two to the bottom line.
I know of one park where the owner stubbornly refused to raise rates over many years. He was always complaining he was barely making ends meet, having to work long hours and his guests were always troublesome and he found himself sliding backwards financially, costs were rising while revenues were not. Finally, one year he raised his price $2.00. He didn't lose any business and did make a bit more money. He then settled in to a pattern of raising prices and now he is about $10.00 higher than when he started. He now is making money, has the ability to hire some help, has some money to re-invest into the business and his customer mix has improved. He is a "Happy Camper". If a business owner is not making money, there is no way his business can serve the customers. Profit is not a dirty word. It needs to be priority number one because without a profit, the business cannot improve and grow.
So true Western .
It took me so many years, to figure that out. I am ashamed to admit it, an individual who has never owned a business will not understand.
But almost without exception
Cheap people(customers) are the hardest to deal with, they want everything for free, and complain the most
The only people, cheap people know, and will refer to you, are other cheap people. Lose them to begin with you lose a whole lot of down stream problems.
Charge a fair (market) amount, never apologize for your fees, compete on service not price. If they don't like it, tough. It is a free country, they can go somewhere else. (funny though, 95% of the time, they come back with their hat in their hand, as we both know)
To many business owners go broke or die early, by letting people beat them up.eubank wrote:
Ah, ever heard of retiring? Getting old and wanting to quit working?
:)
Lynn
Business owners who retire sell their businesses for the money to retire on. It is called an "exit strategy". They don't close up the RV park and walk away. :) WesternBobR wrote:
westernrvparkowner wrote:
There are many reasons why a business would close, but I haven't seen or heard of any that were successful and just shut the doors
Of all comments stated, truer words have not been said.
