Following up recent thread. TIS was mentioned as one of "good ones", as opposed to Manulife with nasty questionnaires and a history of non-paying. So I took a close look and compared the cheapest plan by TIS called A La Carte and a plan by Square Mouth. SM is not an insurer, just a search engine. I dialed in 56 and 66 years in both links, 2 months trip, destination Mex with US included for SM (and no destination in TIS as it doesn't ask about it), 100,000 coverage. TIS wants you to fill a questionnaire, no matter what age. 5 or 6 pages. If you are healthy but didn't have a complete physical in the last 2 years, they charge extra. If you are healthy but had any testing for heart condition in the last 5 years (I suspect ECG or stress testing on treadmill are such tests) - they consider it a "treatment" and charge extra. God forbid having any real illnesses, this will cost a lot more.In SM with filters "coverage from 100,000" and "price from low to high" the top one came Trawick International, a primary plan. Cost slightly higher than TIS with no illnesses - and I don't see any questionnaire. Try entering any illness or testing for heart condition in TIS and it becomes a lot more expensive. Trawick cost only depends on trip duration, deductible and age (to change deductible, click on Policy Details -> Medical -> Options).Again, Trawick is a primary plan which means they will pick the bill first and the province will pay the rest, OR - correct me if I'm wrong - if there is no "rest", the province will reimburse the deductible as the only expense that you had to pay. So you can choose a high deductible, the province will pay anyway. TIS is a secondary plan, i.e. the province pick the bill first, and the rest is covered by TIS if there is any "rest", but you will always pay the deductible.No affiliation with either provider, just nice to see a plan without questionnaire. Again, I compared "any country" by TIS against "destination Mex, including USA" by SM/Trawick.

They are All secondary plans! That is why Your Province has restrictions on time ..Out of Province!If something happens and You require Medical Assistance Your "Travel Insurance Provider" heads straight to Your Provincial Medical Plan for Payment of whatever is available in Your Account. After taking the maximum allowed They then pay the difference, or negotiate a settlement with the Medical Service Provider.If You are in the USA there are sometimes some horrific charges that would literally Bankrupt the Average Canadian. Your Travel Insurance Provider is not quite as thin skinned as the rest of Us though so They Play Hardball and get those Bills taken care of.If You happen to be in some other Country such as Mexico where Medical Costs are Lower than at Home those Same Travel Insurers are ..Collecting from The Provincial Plan and Paying a Portion , again a negotiated amount to the Clinic or Doctors involved.Either way the Insurance Company wins , as the Premiums paid by those who never file a claim always exceed the amounts paid out !That's just business I suppose but doesn't it seem to You that maybe it's time to start doing a bit of Self Insurance instead of paying all these ridiculous premiums?Start by raising Your deductible to reduce the premium and stop running to the Doctor for every little sniffle! Insurance is certainly necessary but sometimes , common sense needs to prevail.

robatthelake wrote:They are All secondary plans! That is why Your Province has restrictions on time ..Out of Province!Yes, they are - usually - secondary, that's why this plan looks interesting. The policy says: Safe Travels InternationalTrawick International Medical Emergency Medical $100,000 per person Primary coverageThe amount of coverage can be changed, and deductible too. In case of a secondary you always pay the deductible, so if it's high and you have a claim, then you pay high. In case of a primary the deductible is paid by the secondary provider.There is no questionnaire - something not very common.The only drawback that I noticed is that they only cover 10,000 for pre-existing, and anything that you had in the last 3 years they consider pre-existing.

Almot wrote:The only drawback that I noticed is that they only cover 10,000 for pre-existing, and anything that you had in the last 3 years they consider pre-existing.Did you not read any of the reviews posted by previous customers? Trawick gets 5 star ratings from people who didn't have to file a claim but terrible reviews from people who actually did have to try to make a claim. Doesn't sound like a company I would like to waste my money on.

$100,000 coverage - not enough.

joebedford wrote:$100,000 coverage - not enough.That is for sure.I would not consider anything less than one million per person.

Medical insurance Mex, no questionnaries | Good Sam Community

18 Replies

Almot
Explorer III
Sep 07, 2013
Moisheh, my reason for not liking a few pages of simple questions ;) at TIS was

1) any "yes" automatically made it not just more expensive, but a lot more expensive than the other company that didn't ask any questions. Maybe with "destination US" - which was not the case - or age over 69 the results wold be different, I didn't try these parameters, not interested yet.
2) I can't be 100% positive that those questions that I answered "no", will not be interpreted differently if sh-t hits the fan, and then the whole policy becomes null and void. It's better not to have to fill any questionnaires, but it's hard to find such a plan.

I agree that Mex public hospitals should only be considered as the last resort. There were some positive reports from expats, but negative prevail.
moisheh
Explorer
Sep 07, 2013
Almot: I have direct experience with CIMA as both of us have been there both as patients and outpatients. 10 years ago their pricing was about half or less when compared to Tucson. That has changed. They are affiliated with a University Hospital in Texas. A first class facility. But they bill just like a US hospital. Every aspirin is charged out! The cost of a hospital bed is probably half of a USA facility. But some other costs are the same or higher. Depending on the procedure I would estimate at least a 33% saving. But that depends on the location of the USA hospital. Some states have reasonable medical costs while others are out of sight! The biggest reason for lower costs in Mexico must be the lack of liability insurance or at least a lower cost of insurance. As for the public hospitals I would never recommend them. There are a few good ones but most are somewhere near 3rd world quality. Many of the private hospitals in tourist areas are just plain scam artists. Bad Drs. at super high prices. BTW: TIS is not a broker. They write and design the policy and it underwritten by an insurance company. The best part is they DO NOT use Manulife! The questionnaire is very simple to understand and there are no clauses that give them an "out" when it comes time to pay( like Manulife). At your age I do not understand why you are so hung up on answering a few questions. Canadian travel health insurance has become more expensive in the last 10 years and will continue to rise as health costs increase. BTW: Manulife is also not listed with the BBB!

Moisheh
Almot
Explorer III
Sep 07, 2013
Somebody asked for more research on US vs Mex hospital cost. Don't know why this is needed, as the US healthcare have a steady reputation of the most expensive in the world. But, since it wasn't too difficult to find, here you are:

2012 price report - US is the winner. Mexico is not on the charts, but it is on the members list of that Federation (see the last page). I am guessing here, but looking at the huge margin that separates US from Canada, - makes me think that Mexico is not anywhere close to US, otherwise it would've been included.

Medical Tourism from US to border Region of Mexico - check page 21, Table 3 for compared costs in the US vs CIMA private hospital in Mexico, and CIMA is a pretty modern and big hospital, one of the best. I said earlier that it was 1/3 of the cost, but it's more like "1/3 or less". The data are from 2009, and Mex costs might have gone up since then. So if there are any data that change or reverse this picture, please post.

$US 3,000 for 9 days in Mex hospital - August 2013, acute gastrointestinal problems, hospital bill $3,000, total $6,500. Not quite clear whether it was a private or government hospital - though it says "private hospital room", and I agree with comments that this newspaper is a "half baked journalism". The author makes it sound like lower cost is the sign of a better system, and forgets that for an average Mexican this is quite expensive. Mexico have government hospitals where citizens can get treatment for free, they don't have to go there if they can afford a private, and I read that govt hospitals are not nearly as good as private ones. Non-citizens have to pay, even if it's a govt hospital.
Almot
Explorer III
Sep 07, 2013
The purpose of the original post was merely to share the info, i.e. what I found when compared two plans. When people are not affiliated with a particular business and didn't deal with it, they share - not promote or recommend :)

Travel medical insurance plans are mostly rated by people that never had to file a claim, because those are the majority. There are negative reviews by people that had to deal with Trawick, and those are posted on the SM site. Google search for reviews on Industrial Alliance that TIS is a broker for, fetched only two reviews, both were very negative, by people who had to file a claim. I hoped to find a broader useful info here at the forum.

moisheh wrote:
This is health insurance. Not something one should try and buy on the cheap. ...
Buying a policy from an American company could leave you with no Canadian consumer protection...
Perhaps another person with general insurance knowledge can offer some insight on another issue.
Thanks Moisheh.
The cost depends on the individual situation, for sure. To me it wasn't just about the cost - both plans were priced closely, if there was no health problems, but one had a questionnaire and another one didn't. I don't know how much "consumer protection" I would get with Industrial Alliance, since they are not BBB accredited. Yes, this is what I hoped for - that somebody will share if not actual experience, then at least insurance knowledge.
moisheh wrote:
When you have 2 insurance policies sometimes the policy will state that the insurer will only pay a portion of the claim.

This is what they call "co-ordination of plans", i.e. when there are 2 insurers and each one has same status, ex. both are primary, or both are secondary.
moisheh
Explorer
Sep 07, 2013
Almot: You are using the logic one might try when buying a used car. This is health insurance. Not something one should try and buy on the cheap. I also doubt your health plan will pay deductibles as they will tell you they are the primary insurer. Have you called them to ask? I got a quote on the Square mouth policy and for $100,000 in my age bracket it was 50% more than 2 million from TIS. Buying a policy from an American company could leave you with no Canadian consumer protection in case of a dispute. Canadian insurers are used to dealing with our Public health officials. Perhaps another person with general insurance knowledge can offer some insight on another issue. When you have 2 insurance policies sometimes the policy will state that the insurer will only pay a portion of the claim.

Moisheh
Mexnut
Explorer
Sep 07, 2013
Almot wrote:
Mexnut, nobody "recommended" this or any other plan.

So then, what was the point of your original post? :h

Almot wrote:
Diagnostics in Mex is cheaper, doctors are cheaper. How this can result in "just as expensive" hospital stay as in the US, is not clear to me.

[COLOR=]That's why you should do some research before you make your post. :S

Almot wrote:
Also, apart from saying that all those plans suck, do you have any answers?

I think the reviews from customers who actually had to file a claim pretty much provide all the answers.
Almot
Explorer III
Sep 07, 2013
Mexnut, nobody "recommended" this or any other plan.

Diagnostics in Mex is cheaper, doctors are cheaper. How this can result in "just as expensive" hospital stay as in the US, is not clear to me.

Also, apart from saying that all those plans suck, do you have any answers?
Mexnut
Explorer
Sep 07, 2013
Almot wrote:

Mexican private hospitals are not cheap, and nobody said that provincial plan alone would have to cover it - From what I read, the cost of Mex private hospital is 1/3-1/2 of the US hospital, i.e. roughly comparable to Canadian costs,

Wow! You really need to do a bit more research before you go recommending policies!!!! Private Mexico hospitals can easily be just as expensive as American hospitals.

Almot wrote:
I have not heard anything about this Trawick plan, haven't read any reviews by actual claimants, so if you know of any - please tell.

The reviews are all on the same site you recommended in your original post. Try taking a look at Trawick reviews The first couple pages are all comments saying "Wonderful, although I didn't have to file a claim" :h Then there are several from people who actually did have to file a claim and rate them as terrible!

Almot wrote:
It is difficult to find any reviews from other plans as well.

There are reviews for all the SM companies on the site you recommended....looks to me like they all suck.
Almot
Explorer III
Sep 06, 2013
Moisheh, I already wrote that max coverage under this plan is 1 million - not 100,000. And it sounds from your numbers that 1 million is quite enough for a 250K heart surgery and a few weeks in intensive care in the US. So to my question - whether I need "more than 1 million" - this doesn't sound like a "yes" answer.

Mexican private hospitals are not cheap, and nobody said that provincial plan alone would have to cover it - but a plan 100,000-1,000,000 together with provincial plan could. From what I read, the cost of Mex private hospital is 1/3-1/2 of the US hospital, i.e. roughly comparable to Canadian costs, so if private insurance plan is Primary, I don't see why the province would not cover the rest, including the deductible. I'm more concerned about covering the US treatment with a private Primary plan + provincial secondary, rather than a Mex treatment.

I have not heard anything about this Trawick plan, haven't read any reviews by actual claimants, so if you know of any - please tell. It is difficult to find any reviews from other plans as well. When I hear people saying that some company is "easy to deal with", they usually mean - easy to buy or talk on the phone before buying, nothing else. Lower cost of that plan could be explained by 3 year look-back - this is longer than many other plans.
moisheh
Explorer
Sep 06, 2013
Almot: I think you need to start living in the real world. $100,000 in the USA would get you say 5 days in a hospital and minor surgery. My gall bladder was $85,000 and that was in a small city. If you had a heart attack it would not be hard to approach $250,000 or more. There are times when you cannot be airlifted. If you had to remain in intensive care for a few weeks your 100 g's would be gone in no time. And do not think that first class coverage in Mexico is that cheap. In the better hospitals your Canadian health plan will not cover even all the hospital stay. There is no free lunch. What makes you think that some unheard of insurance company can provide coverage for a lot less than others. Maybe 20 to 30 % less. TIS has a good reputation. I used to have coverage from my business but now they only provide 60 days. I just bought top up from TIS and they were less than RBC. I just noticed that the plan on Square mouth will only fly you to the nearest capable facility. They will not take you back to Canada.

Moisheh

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Medical insurance Mex, no questionnaries

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