Passport America, worth it or not?

Acampingwewillgo wrote:
Seems to me that an empty Campground is much like a empty Cruise Ship....No one in the site/cabin = No income and no possibility of income. We all know Cruise ship's like to sail at full capacity even if little to no profit is being made hence the last minute deals( I'm very familiar with this, My wife cruise's often while I Baby sit the dogs and she has gone on Cruise's for as little as 99.00 for a 7 day cruise.) This is not to say a Ship doesn't have one up on a site...the ship has alcohol, casino.....heck, even dining in upscale eateries cost nowadays. Allowing someone to stay at "your" campground at a discount may provide good word of mouth advertising and good PR..IMHO

Anyways, back to the topic, I still think PA is a good deal for what it is, that's why I keep, it just in case.

Your adage is a tenet of the hospitality industry in general:).
Doesn't change that published rates are inflated in line with slow periods in mind. Neither well managed hotels, motels, cruise lines or camping sites ignore it; the increased cost of incidentals are just gravy in many operations.

PA and similar programs are a way to ensure that the bottom line for operating costs are met. For my money, I don't find those type of memberships appealing, either for the extra gas money or time spent in mostly out of the way spots.

We find it most useful when we are just moving down the road, not staying several days or longer. Sometimes, parks limit you to just the back ins of those by the road... The couple we use transitioning pay the membership. The rest is gravy. If you are a weekender only or summer traveler, it would not be as useful. We FT.

Seems to me that an empty Campground is much like a empty Cruise Ship....No one in the site/cabin = No income and no possibility of income. We all know Cruise ship's like to sail at full capacity even if little to no profit is being made hence the last minute deals( I'm very familiar with this, My wife cruise's often while I Baby sit the dogs and she has gone on Cruise's for as little as 99.00 for a 7 day cruise.) This is not to say a Ship doesn't have one up on a site...the ship has alcohol, casino.....heck, even dining in upscale eateries cost nowadays. Allowing someone to stay at "your" campground at a discount may provide good word of mouth advertising and good PR..IMHO

Anyways, back to the topic, I still think PA is a good deal for what it is, that's why I keep, it just in case.

IN the plumbing business we have a saying
" I can stay home and lose money"
Western has a point it is not as simple as filling an empty site.
I do think PA can be beneficial for CG and consumer however ALL circumstances have to be favorable.
A couple or single RV'er at 1/2 price may work, but a family of 5 may tip the scale.
But then again many CG's are charging for extra people....
Which is a whole other can of worms

I see that MT has 10 PA parks. can I assume that you are not one of them ? :)
bumpy

Bumpyroad wrote:

westernrvparkowner wrote:

Bumpyroad wrote:
check out the locations/restrictions/etc. on line. call and make reservations with the campground. I have been in some that were bare bones and some that were very nice. if a campground is normally 80 percent full and happens to fill that 20 percent at half price, it is a plus plus, regardless of what a campground owner might think.
bumpy

Your business math is just plain wrong. It is a given that some of those 80 percent will also be PPA members, so the park will have less revenue from that business. On top of that, those 20 pecent additional guests have a cost to them. Electricity, water, and all the misc. costs of a guest. On top of that, there is no guarantee that offering fifty percent discount will bring in a single additional customer, yet it is likely some of the existing customers will use get the PPA discount. That would mean the park would lose money.
PPA works best in three situations.
1. Where the park is has a lot of competition and is not the most desirable of the parks.
2. Where the price can be set where a 50 Percent discount would actually allow the park to make what it really wants for the site.
3. When the park is located in a location that otherwise would not attract customers.
PPA sells the idea that parks are filling sites that otherwise would go empty, but for most parks that is simply not true.

it is completely within the park's purview to "ration" out available spaces for the PA rate. I have had stays at the reduced rate that exceeded the 3 night rule, etc., and doubt that the campground would allow that if they were losing all that money. the pool needs to be maintained as do the grounds and one or two more people using the facilities surely doesn't make a big dent in the utility bill, unless your maintenance folks get paid more if they have to take care of additional people.
I'm sure that some of this expense is written off as good will and perhaps the people will return or increase patronage by word of mouth, if they enjoy their stay.
bumpy

There was a study done by the University of Montana for the State of Montana Tourism Board that showed the average visitor to Montana returns every 17 years. That means for many people it is a once in a lifetime trip. Doesn't make much sense to give away your services for "Goodwill" on people who will never come back.
Additional occupancy comes with costs. But you are right, even with a 50 percent discount, it is likely that the park would make some profit, but how much additional work would you take on to make literally pennies? Even if you are sitting at home, doing nothing, there is a threshold that has to be crossed before you would take on work for income. You wouldn't go dig ditches for ten cents an hour.
Say you were a plumber, you get a job replacing a toilet and you will net $100.00. It takes you one hour plus 1 hour of transit time, to and from your shop. If while you were there, you noticed that their sink drain was slow, there was a leaky spigot on the side of their house and a couple of the irrigation sprayers were not working. You have all the parts with you, and the customer agrees to buy them at cost. Now you are down to negotiating labor, you are already there so there is no additional travel time, the extra work will take 3 hours. Will you agree to do the job for 1/2 half of what you normally make ($25.00 an hour vs. $50.00 hour) Is giving up 3 hours of your time worth $25.00 an hour?
What if something happens while doing that 3 hour job that ends up making it a 5 hour job? You have lost all your safety margin when you agreed to the half price rate. Now you are making $15.00 an hour while potentially missing other jobs, or you have to call your next appointment and upset them by telling them you are running two hours late. Or you miss your favorite TV shows for a relatively small income.
However, you still have the magic of the referrals working for you. The customer tells that referral that you are a great plumber, but he also tells the referral that when you come out to do a job you will take on additional work for 1/2 of the normal rate. If you do it for Bill, you really need to do it for Bob, or Bob will give you bad reviews. So you have another job at much less than your normal hourly rate.
Then the first customer calls with another plumbing need, but he says "If you make me a deal like you did the last time, I will hire you for this job, but otherwise I really need to shop around." You can't take chances with your current customer base, so you tell he "OK". What has happened is by giving big discounts you have become a 1/2 off plumber.
We have seen it in our business. We used to make deals for people who stayed very early or very late into the season. Those are the slower times, but what happens is these guests eventually want to stay in the peak season and get upset when you don't offer them that same deal, or you offer that deal and make considerably less than you would renting that site to a full price customer. Or they tell their referral friends that you can get a big discount at Western's park. When we dropped those special deals, almost all the customers kept coming, and our revenues and income increased. The discount wasn't what was drawing them in the first place. It was the service we provided. Cost was a non-issue.
Filling sites for the sake of being full is just spinning your wheels and often leads to unintended consequences.

PA is a good deal. My first use of the card last year was at a place I was not sure of and ended up staying two nights. That paid for the PA membership. On my trip last summer I stayed at places I normally would not have considered because of $$/night. Several times I stayed longer at full price because everything was so nice. Then there was the park by East St Louise where I was the only transient customer. But I was passing through and they had a very popular BBQ joint on the grounds.

Bob & Ann wrote:

WantoWander wrote:

Bob & Ann wrote:
We took a two week trip in January and more then paid for the yearly fee. We were able to use it in three parks which were all very nice. It saved us a good bit on money in New Orleans as we used it for six nights in a very nice location.

Hi Bob and Ann,

Which campground did you stay ay near New Orleans? We are headed down that way in April and I just joined PA so I'm looking for good campgrounds for a cross country trip.

Thanks,
Donna

Donna
It was Pontchatrain Landing. With Passport it cost us something like $40 per night. It is a nice place.

Thank you! I see that they have a shuttle from the campground to the French Quarter so this will be the perfect spot for us!!

SDcampowneroperator wrote:
Look closely at what the camp will provide for that 1/2 price fee. Could be limited to difficult backins , or such as 20a electric only sites. Then when you arrive, you need 'more' PA. no longer applies.
Its a Bait and Switch game for both parties.
No business can survive on 50% Thats a less than cost for us.
There has to be a catch.

Totally disagree with you based on our experience. We were never given the worse campsite in the park that was difficult to back in or had 20a; always 30a and some with 40a. We had a range of pull-through, backins (our first choice anyway); very nice views and overall a pleasant experience. Sometimes we were allowed to spend extra days beyond the stated for the same 1/2 off.

It is not bait and switch or they wouldn't be in business for this long of time.

garmp1 wrote:

Acampingwewillgo wrote:
I still have PA but have not used it in a few year's. Since getting a Thousand Trail's membership and RPI included, it's hard to beat the cost/savings. I have noted that over the year's with PA, the restrictions seem to be growing on when and how PA can be applied.

For my own edification and that of those afraid to ask, what is RPI that's included?

Sorry RPI is Resort Parks International. I really shouldn't say its included but you have the option to keep it year after year for 100 bucks. IF a particular park is an "RPI Preferred" Park, it's a 10 buck a night cost at the park. I use it mainly for a park in/near Parker AZ, Emerald Cove which is part of Colorado River Adventures....a membership for them is $$$$ so I get to stay at that Park for two weeks at a time for 140.00, we love the place. You can check out RPI with a google search....they break down the camps by state and whether its a preferred site or ???.

It allows you Parks to stay at where Thousand Trails may Not have any at all.