RV'ing at the Naval Station in Key West

What I find a bit interesting - the DOD civilians make a pretty good paycheck, and a pretty good retirement, plus other benefits. Including Housing!!!

US military worked for peanuts - especially those that enlisted before the huge pay increases a few years back. My highest pay rate in the navy was $870 a month (plus benefits - food, bed, clothes, a base vehicle) - NOT $870 a week. Part of that obligation was gaining some benefits, like medical, commissary, and inexpensive camping - ext.

Our medical is disappearing, our commissary is on the 'out-shelf', so at least leave us the campgrounds. Although they'll eventually go to contract, like the UFS campgrounds - raise prices - and become a cash cow instead of a benefit for those that earned it ...

Benefits - In other words, use of the facilities. Now, it's pretty often we go to a busy or desired area campground, and can't use it - or get stuck in "dry camping' for a week or so, even overnight, when DOD stay full-time and haven't earned it.

There is NOTHING in the DOD contracts that says a DOD gets to use MCG's .. NO where does it say that. So, DOD finagles into the MCG, and pockets housing allowance. Housing allowance is for rental housing - period, not for DOD to camp in a military campground.

Do I respect the work DOD does for our military and protecting this country? Absolutely, no doubt, for sure. But DOD gets a good paycheck, gets benefits they earn, and one of them is NOT crowding the MCGS. That's one that retired military, AD, and disabled vets earned. Leave us with it.

One the other hand, I also believe any disabled vet (or maybe 50% and above) should get camping. But it not in the law - I think it should be, and would vote yes if it came up. The law says only AD, retired, disabled 100% vets. Pressure from DOD and cam funding pushed the CO to get authority for DOD, and the CO took the cash. That makes me sad, that it came to that. But now it's abused, and that makes me sadder.

monkey44 wrote:
What I find a bit interesting - the DOD civilians make a pretty good paycheck, and a pretty good retirement, plus other benefits. Including Housing!!!

DoD civilians do not get a housing allowance. As with everything, there are exceptions: if they are serving overseas on military orders, they are reimbursed for housing receipts. What may have you confused is that some DoD civilians serving OUTUS receive housing as part of their overall compensation package, or at least they did until last year. Report from the Stars & Stripes
LQA FAQs

monkey44 wrote:

US military worked for peanuts - especially those that enlisted before the huge pay increases a few years back. My highest pay rate in the navy was $870 a month (plus benefits - food, bed, clothes, a base vehicle) - NOT $870 a week. Part of that obligation was gaining some benefits, like medical, commissary, and inexpensive camping - ext.

Our medical is disappearing, our commissary is on the 'out-shelf', so at least leave us the campgrounds. Although they'll eventually go to contract, like the UFS campgrounds - raise prices - and become a cash cow instead of a benefit for those that earned it ...

Benefits - In other words, use of the facilities. Now, it's pretty often we go to a busy or desired area campground, and can't use it - or get stuck in "dry camping' for a week or so, even overnight, when DOD stay full-time and haven't earned it.

However, it is only your opinion that DoD civilians haven't earned it. Congress and base commanders do not agree.

monkey44 wrote:

There is NOTHING in the DOD contracts that says a DOD gets to use MCG's .. NO where does it say that. So, DOD finagles into the MCG, and pockets housing allowance. Housing allowance is for rental housing - period, not for DOD to camp in a military campground.

Do I respect the work DOD does for our military and protecting this country? Absolutely, no doubt, for sure. But DOD gets a good paycheck, gets benefits they earn, and one of them is NOT crowding the MCGS. That's one that retired military, AD, and disabled vets earned. Leave us with it.

One the other hand, I also believe any disabled vet (or maybe 50% and above) should get camping. But it not in the law - I think it should be, and would vote yes if it came up. The law says only AD, retired, disabled 100% vets. Pressure from DOD and cam funding pushed the CO to get authority for DOD, and the CO took the cash. That makes me sad, that it came to that. But now it's abused, and that makes me sadder.

And now back to my original statement, you really have no clue about how DoD civilians are classed. :R Please go back and read the post by 2 chiefs, you are confusing DoD civilians with base contractors. Biggest difference is that DoD civilians carry a Geneva convention card and are subject to the UCMJ, base contractors do not work directly for the government and have full freedoms, including freedom of speech.

Regardless of "DoD classifications ... Military campgrounds are NOT housing, and most of the federal laws put limits on 'continuous' days stay, which are abused. These are recreation facilities ... period.

And correct, not every DOD gets housing allowance, for permanent employees, it's like any other job. But a lot of DOD do when the job is contract and short-term specialty employment. Those are often the ones that use the MCG and keep the funds.

When we arrive at a MCG, and want to use it for its purpose it was intended (originally for AD recreation, and secondary for retired), and DOD workers are filling the campground day after week after month, it's abusing that MCG, no matter how you cut it.

Right, personal opinion that CO 'evolved' into using the MCG as a revenue builder to support other activities (like golf) and each MCG (like other MWR activities) is supposed to support itself. But, it turns out (and this info comes direct from Kings Bay MCG manager) the "extra funds this MCG generates" are taken back into the general MWR fund and used to support other MWR activities that don't support themselves.

Balancing budgets always seems to get manipulated so the users and therefore the supporters of one program lose maintenance and development revenue to other components. I'd like to see how much MCG revenue goes to support the golf course at MacDill, for example.

Anyone know why the Kings Bay MCG (A great campground) was designed and built the way it is?? The sub-base CO at the time it was built was a RV / CAMPER, not a golfer. We happened to camp next to him in Kings Bay some years later, after he retired and began full-timing. SO, he explained the process for the KB camp. That's the only reason I know this info ... direct from the CO.

He also explained that most successful MCG's get the funds drained into other activities. So, the cash cows continue to produce milk, and it often gets diverted - particularly in the more desired areas ... Like Florida camps in winter. MacDill is a nightmare unless you're one of the "returning in crowd" ...

Would make more sense to use MCG funds in successful areas to renovate MCG's in other, less successful areas, so the campers that produce the MCG funds get use in areas that don't generate as much, and maybe upgrade those so eventually more RV'ers might use those and make them more successful on their own.

The only real issue we have - equal use for those that earned the benefit. And we should not be forced to share that benefit with a civilian employee for the purpose of that civilian 'saving money' ... that's not MCG mission.

Wow I am really surprised how little is know about Govt. Civilians... I currently work for the Corps of Engineers an also retired Coast Guard. Trust me I am not working for the retirement, it is not that great. It works out to around $50 for every year u work so a 30 year civilian is looking at maybe $1500 a month before taxes..

Reading some of these post on here I am sure some of you will come up and say that the Coast Guard does not deserve to be able to use the campgrounds either.

If you are upset with your benefits being changed or taken away Vote!!!!!!! And speak up.
Happy Camping

katfish wrote:
Wow I am really surprised how little is know about Govt. Civilians... I currently work for the Corps of Engineers an also retired Coast Guard. Trust me I am not working for the retirement, it is not that great. It works out to around $50 for every year u work so a 30 year civilian is looking at maybe $1500 a month before taxes..

Reading some of these post on here I am sure some of you will come up and say that the Coast Guard does not deserve to be able to use the campgrounds either.

If you are upset with your benefits being changed or taken away Vote!!!!!!! And speak up.
Happy Camping

Thank you katfish. I continue to be amazed at the lack of understanding about government civilians too.

katfish wrote:
Wow I am really surprised how little is know about Govt. Civilians... I currently work for the Corps of Engineers an also retired Coast Guard. Trust me I am not working for the retirement, it is not that great. It works out to around $50 for every year u work so a 30 year civilian is looking at maybe $1500 a month before taxes..

Actually that varies with your Grade(pay), it can be as high as $6000/month (Sr Executive type). But there are few of them and many more at lower rates

Reading some of these post on here I am sure some of you will come up and say that the Coast Guard does not deserve to be able to use the campgrounds either.

I actually know of a Coasti campground, never stayed there as there are three membership and one Navy campgrounds in the area that I like just fine. They allow the usual list of allowed.

Just checked, and they have three (3) RV slot, period, no "big rigs".

katfish wrote:
Wow I am really surprised how little is know about Govt. Civilians... I currently work for the Corps of Engineers an also retired Coast Guard. Trust me I am not working for the retirement, it is not that great. It works out to around $50 for every year u work so a 30 year civilian is looking at maybe $1500 a month before taxes..

Reading some of these post on here I am sure some of you will come up and say that the Coast Guard does not deserve to be able to use the campgrounds either.

If you are upset with your benefits being changed or taken away Vote!!!!!!! And speak up.
Happy Camping

A big thank you from a 33 year DOD (Navy) civilian - NOT A CONTRACTOR, who has spent a lot of time on Aircraft Carriers, Submarines, Destroyers, LPDs, LPHs, P-3s P-8s etc.

For those wondering, the pension is 1.1% of your high 3 average salary for each creditable year of service if you retire at age 62 or older. And contrary to popular belief, we do not get housing allowances unless we are on TDY, where we get per diem. At that point, we are required to fly out and back and must stay at a hotel within per diem. and usually one chosen by the Defense Travel System. The Famcamps are not an option.

djsamuel wrote:

katfish wrote:
Wow I am really surprised how little is know about Govt. Civilians... I currently work for the Corps of Engineers an also retired Coast Guard. Trust me I am not working for the retirement, it is not that great. It works out to around $50 for every year u work so a 30 year civilian is looking at maybe $1500 a month before taxes..

Reading some of these post on here I am sure some of you will come up and say that the Coast Guard does not deserve to be able to use the campgrounds either.

If you are upset with your benefits being changed or taken away Vote!!!!!!! And speak up.
Happy Camping

A big thank you from a 33 year DOD (Navy) civilian - NOT A CONTRACTOR, who has spent a lot of time on Aircraft Carriers, Submarines, Destroyers, LPDs, LPHs, P-3s P-8s etc.

For those wondering, the pension is 1.1% of your high 3 average salary for each creditable year of service if you retire at age 62 or older. And contrary to popular belief, we do not get housing allowances unless we are on TDY, where we get per diem. At that point, we are required to fly out and back and must stay at a hotel within per diem. and usually one chosen by the Defense Travel System. The Famcamps are not an option.

Maybe you can tell me who are all the guys that stay in FAMCAMPS that work for DOD and stay instead of housing ... they are certainly civilian, and go in and work at the base every day, come back every night ... and when I ask, they say "DOD, we stay here because it saves money ... and admit they get allowance, and it's way more than a FC site. And they stay a lot longer than the 30 or 60 limit too.

Those guys are most likely hired by Contractors. They are paid directly by the Contractors. Outsourcing jobs to the "private sector" has become really big in the government. It is a way to avoid putting workers on the government payrolls. The contractors and the contractors' employees are not eligible for government pensions or government health plans.

monkey44 wrote:
they say "DOD, we stay here because it saves money ... and admit they get allowance, and it's way more than a FC site. And they stay a lot longer than the 30 or 60 limit too.

I've never heard of a GS FTE position which authorized any allowance for housing except for overseas bases with a local COL adjustment.

Those really sound like contractors, not DOD Civilian employees.

As you mention - a base CO has a lot of discretion over who can stay at base sites. I have not been shy about letting the CO know when I feel that regular authorized personnel are being shut out due to allowing the FC to become semi-permanent housing.

It's one thing for someone on a 6 month TDY to stay in the FC (at a very reduced per diem). Completely another for a retiree or base worker (FTE or contractor) to setup the FC as their permanent home.