Forum Discussion
- For more info on these particular chargers:
Salt Lake Tribune Article
At the newer Marverik stations you can buy "Real Gas", alcohol free for your generator etc., and firewood for when you get to your campsite. Now they are also adding electric charging stations in areas. The electric charging stations will require folks to pay, and while there were grants provided to put the charging stations in place my understanding is that they won't be subsidized beyond that so it will be interesting to see how the costs work out.
As for the practicality of using electric vehicles in Utah at this time, like large portions of the US, they are probably only practical right now as commuter vehicles in our major metropolitan areas. We still don't even have cell phone coverage in over a third of the land area, let alone practical means of charging an electric vehicle. I routinely wander off into areas where it's over 50 miles of dirt road to the nearest pavement. Unfortunately, the remote areas are going away fast though. Searching_Ut wrote:
For more info on these particular chargers:
Salt Lake Tribune Article
At the newer Marverik stations you can buy "Real Gas", alcohol free for your generator etc., and firewood for when you get to your campsite. Now they are also adding electric charging stations in areas. The electric charging stations will require folks to pay, and while there were grants provided to put the charging stations in place my understanding is that they won't be subsidized beyond that so it will be interesting to see how the costs work out.
As for the practicality of using electric vehicles in Utah at this time, like large portions of the US, they are probably only practical right now as commuter vehicles in our major metropolitan areas. We still don't even have cell phone coverage in over a third of the land area, let alone practical means of charging an electric vehicle. I routinely wander off into areas where it's over 50 miles of dirt road to the nearest pavement. Unfortunately, the remote areas are going away fast though.
Good morning. If you go to plugshare.com Utah doesn't look to bad as far as coverage goes. Its got a ways to go but most of the corridors seem to have reasonable coverage.
Here is a link. Easy to check out your area for coverage.
plugshareJohn & Angela wrote:
Right now it wouldn't be worth it for us to install roof solar as grid power is cheap.
:h I'm curious ... where is both grid power cheap and the air clean if there isn't a bunch of falling water or nuclear fission around?
For example, here in CA grid power is not cheap and the air is getting clean, but without much help from nuclear fission or falling water. I expect that solar and wind has something to do with our clean air. However, so far solar and wind ARE NOT bringing down the cost of grid power.
Right here in the Southwest - in probably the largest solar and wind farm area of the U.S. - the cost to charge EVs has nowhere to go but up unless EV owners throw up enough solar real estate on their roofs. What are the financing costs for decent sized roof solar panel systems, anyway? Are payback break-even points still several years out?
I'm not a fan of individual solar setups at personal residences. I'd rather see the grid still supplying the bulk of personal residence power - including EV charging - but with grid power becoming cheaper and cheaper as large solar and wind farms feeding the grid come on line more and more across the U.S.. IMHO, that's the most efficient way for non-fossil power to benefit the masses and Planet Earth -> use the huge grid system that is already in place but feed it with solar and wind generated energy. (My thouughts on solar and wind sourcing of power are assuming that nuclear fusion power is still a long way off, or impossible.)pnichols wrote:
I'm not a fan of individual solar setups at personal residences. I'd rather see the grid still supplying the bulk of personal residence power - including EV charging - but with grid power becoming cheaper and cheaper as large solar and wind farms feeding the grid come on line more and more across the U.S.
I have to disagree with you there. I am one and it is the only way that, currently, makes sense. (Was that a pun?)
We generate and store our own energy, there is no storage on the grid, they can only generate and only when the sun is up or the wind is blowing. Also, the grid demands a bureaucracy which demands: taxes, fees, regulations, transmission lines, and extensive maintenance. Transmission loss means that you actually have to make much more energy than needed, adding to the cost. Also, you are dependent on that grid. It goes down, no power for anybody. Every Monsoon season we watch Sierra Vista go dark while we enjoy air conditioning, TV, ceiling fans, microwave ovens, and all things electrical. And if ours should go down for some reason, the backup gennie kicks in.
Also, our grid-tied neighbors are now being assessed fees by the power company because the company refuses to earn less money. We don't have that problem. Cut the Cord! ;)
PatLenSatic wrote:
Also, our grid-tied neighbors are now being assessed fees by the power company because the company refuses to earn less money.
Pat,
It's so many early adopter folks having individual solar systems that's causing power companies to have a smaller customer base to earn income from - while those ex-customers having local solar probably still have a portion of the grid system close to their residences that may be needed yet for years to service other nearby customers not on their own local systems.
I'm not convinced that local residential solar/wind systems can compete against the economies of scale that will naturally come from the huge solar/wind farms, from the huge (eventually) energy storage systems, and from the huge inverter systems for the solar power component from the farms (wind based energy from the huge farms may not require DC to AC inversion).
I'll bet that solar panels, battery banks, and inverters at - or close to - every living area will not, in the long run, even be possible ... let alone be the most efficient and Earth-friendly way to provide non-fossil power to billons of people world-wide. This will become more evident going forward as the bulk of the world's population continues to move into higher and higher density living situations.pnichols wrote:
This will become more evident going forward as the bulk of the world's population continues to move into higher and higher density living situations.
I agree with you on this part but they are working on small reactors, similar to the ones on our nuclear-powered ships, that would serve to take care of this problem. We just have to get over this fear of nuclear power. Solar and wind power are nuclear power(ed). ;)pnichols wrote:
John & Angela wrote:
Right now it wouldn't be worth it for us to install roof solar as grid power is cheap.
:h I'm curious ... where is both grid power cheap and the air clean if there isn't a bunch of falling water or nuclear fission around?
For example, here in CA grid power is not cheap and the air is getting clean, but without much help from nuclear fission or falling water. I expect that solar and wind has something to do with our clean air. However, so far solar and wind ARE NOT bringing down the cost of grid power.
Right here in the Southwest - in probably the largest solar and wind farm area of the U.S. - the cost to charge EVs has nowhere to go but up unless EV owners throw up enough solar real estate on their roofs. What are the financing costs for decent sized roof solar panel systems, anyway? Are payback break-even points still several years out?
I'm not a fan of individual solar setups at personal residences. I'd rather see the grid still supplying the bulk of personal residence power - including EV charging - but with grid power becoming cheaper and cheaper as large solar and wind farms feeding the grid come on line more and more across the U.S.. IMHO, that's the most efficient way for non-fossil power to benefit the masses and Planet Earth -> use the huge grid system that is already in place but feed it with solar and wind generated energy. (My thouughts on solar and wind sourcing of power are assuming that nuclear fusion power is still a long way off, or impossible.)
Where? I don't know. I am far from being any kind of grid expert. We are in a province that gets all its power from hydro. I get your drift though. I guess in my mind if I was in a place where rates are high and I knew I was going to be there for a while I would just spend the bucks and go off grid. But here power is 11 cents per kWh canadian currency. Not worth the investment although our Town House has a 320 watt solar system coupled to a 2 KW battery reserve with 2.5 kw sine wave inverter for emergency backup etc. Fridge, some lights, a couple fans etc. Good for a few days without sun, indefinite with.
Appreciate your comments. Always pertinent and interesting. Thank you.LenSatic wrote:
That's what they do now, not 50 years from now. They want people to buy. Plus, they are being subsidized. That won't last.
As for lead-acid, the greenies don't know it but the lead is recycled into bullets. ;)
One has to wonder why 19th century lead-acid batteries and internal combustion engines are still in use. It's a head scratcher! ;)
LS
Well Len,
You are a bit out of time here.
I agree that the subsidy for electric cars won't(can't) last. It makes no economic sense at all.
But, of the lead that gets recycled from batteries, almost all goes back into batteries. Refining of raw lead is now forbidden in the US. Most bullets are not even lead anymore. Lead is forbidden in most all hunting ammunition and even many target shooters on closed ranges are enjoined from using cast lead bullets.
As to why what appear to be 19th century technology is still in use, that means you haven't really looked. The lead/acid batteries in use today only share the basic theoretical chemistry with those of the 19th century. And, internal combustion engines are so far advanced as to make them almost unrecognizable to a 19th or even early 20th century mechanic. And that is just the open-loop stuff.....
Matt- How does the road tax get paid?????
Ozlander wrote:
How does the road tax get paid?????
Depends on the country, province, state. Some have a flat fee collected at registration. Some calculate it on weight and mileage. It seems to me one country is collecting a per kilowatt fee on level three charging only. I disagree with that as most of my charging is done at home. Most EV owners I know prefer the registration fee. Some places are not collecting anything yet but I would imagine that won't last long.
