Forum Discussion
- As to why lead based batteries are still in such heavy use, it's because they are very economical, and they just plain work well in a wide range of conditions. Remember, in the early days of the automobile, electric ruled. It was the shortcomings of batteries that resulted in the gas engine becoming the norm, and unfortunately, it's still the shortcomings of batteries that are keeping electric vehicles, self sufficient homes etc. from being a good choice for most.
A lot of my neighbors have had solar installed on their roofs due to the large subsidy available right now. In fact, Utah has the second highest per capita solar installed in the nation. Unfortunately, virtually all these homes are a grid tie system without the ability to operate independently should the grid go down. Keeping the cost down also requires net metering which is a method of forcing other grid users to subsidize the solar systems operating costs. Currently the cost of building the generation and distribution of the grid is built into the cost of the power. As more and more solar comes on line, the methodology of billing will have to change so that the folks running solar actually pay the actual costs of the services they are provided from the grid. - As far as the road tax is concerned, Tennessee charges $100 per year more to license an electric car or hybrid.
- Just to start, I am fully in favor of both wind and solar power. However, it would be interesting to see some figures considering how much petroleum based, pollution-causing fuels are used to generate the clean electricity to run pollution-free electric vehicles.
And just looking at a bit more reality, in much of our country, the population density per acre is very small. Then look at just about any big city, that uses more electricity per square foot than acres of open land oes. How many square miles of open land for solar and wind power does it take to provide power for places like LA and southern Ca, or New York and the NE part of the country. A complete solar umbrella covering any of the big cities would not even start to provide the power used by that city. And out in the open Midwest, at lots of the west coast that are open and can be used are currently using that solar power to grow crops that will not grow in shade, and are much of our food needs. Would you be be willing to never have a salad again to be able to drive electric?? Ok untill you start getting hungry. Johno02 wrote:
Just to start, I am fully in favor of both wind and solar power. However, it would be interesting to see some figures considering how much petroleum based, pollution-causing fuels are used to generate the clean electricity to run pollution-free electric vehicles.
And just looking at a bit more reality, in much of our country, the population density per acre is very small. Then look at just about any big city, that uses more electricity per square foot than acres of open land oes. How many square miles of open land for solar and wind power does it take to provide power for places like LA and southern Ca, or New York and the NE part of the country. A complete solar umbrella covering any of the big cities would not even start to provide the power used by that city. And out in the open Midwest, at lots of the west coast that are open and can be used are currently using that solar power to grow crops that will not grow in shade, and are much of our food needs. Would you be be willing to never have a salad again to be able to drive electric?? Ok untill you start getting hungry.
Noel .... outstanding observations and comments. Way to go!!Johno02 wrote:
Just to start, I am fully in favor of both wind and solar power. However, it would be interesting to see some figures considering how much petroleum based, pollution-causing fuels are used to generate the clean electricity to run pollution-free electric vehicles.
Good morning. From what I can see or read on readily available numbers is that in most but not all the world more and more energy is coming from renewables or cleaner sources of power. I see you are from the US so I took a quick look at a table I found and it seems that coal use seems to drop just a little over 1 percent per year there. I thin it is around 33 percent there. Not too many years back it was north of 50 percent. I don't know much about CO2 levels but I know when I am standing on a sidewalk at a stop light and the stench of diesel and gas fumes is prominent. That can't be good for the health. EV's don't emit those fumes. If the power still comes from a fossil fuel source it is probably better controlled and regulated than a 1996 Volkswagen Jettas tail pipe. Many countries produce very little power through fossil fuel sources and most countries that do are reducing the amount of air pollution that they produce. Those that don't, well, can't do much about them. We need to work on our problems at home first. No easy answers, one step at a time.
CheersMatt_Colie wrote:
Well Len,
You are a bit out of time here.
But, of the lead that gets recycled from batteries, almost all goes back into batteries. Refining of raw lead is now forbidden in the US.
Matt
The hunting restriction is state by state but I'm still buying lead bullets. I have friends that even mold their own for muzzle loaders:
https://www.midwayusa.com/lead-alloy/br?cid=8662
Plus: the EPA can always change it's standards . . . or go away. ;)
LS- Electric vehicles obviously make more sense for commuters than for long range transport at the moment, but that is changing rapidly. Even with fast chargers, one can't "fill up" nearly as quickly as with gasoline. But battery capacities are improving greatly, and new technologies quite different from the current ones used by Tesla, Toyota, etc. are perhaps just several years away. Once the time and distance needed can be met with a single charge every 4 to 5 hours, refilling the car while refilling the belly becomes a real draw for restaurants along the highway. Near us, there's a Tesla charging station and the nearby Chili's gets a lot of traffic because of that.
As battery technolgy improves, we'll see an increase in the number of homes that aren't tied to the grid at all. Those without solar or wind will be paying a higher rate as the cost of maintaining the grid will be spread among fewer users. As batteried get more effiecient and smaller, no longer will going off grid mean having a garage filled with lead-acid batteries.
Volvo recently made the announcement that beginning with their 2019 model year, all their drivetrains will be electric or hybrid, no more solely internal combustion engines. They see where the market is going and are trying to stay ahead of it. While the US may have pulled out of the Paris deal, Volvo sells cars around the world and wants to be ready to comply with new pollution standard of the future wherever they do business. 4runnerguy wrote:
. . . no longer will going off grid mean having a garage filled with lead-acid batteries.
It's not really that bad. Here are ours:
PatLenSatic wrote:
4runnerguy wrote:
. . . no longer will going off grid mean having a garage filled with lead-acid batteries.
It's not really that bad. Here are ours:
Pat
Cool pics. Thanks for sharing. Are you completely off grid?- "Cool pics. Thanks for sharing. Are you completely off grid?"
Yep, 100%. That doesn't mean we are self-sufficient, though. Propane is delivered once or twice a year. Basically our home is a scaled-up RV.
