It's a start.http://www.utahbusiness.com/utahs-national-park-electric-vehicle-corridor-kicks-off-two-chargers/

Just a question, does anybody have any idea what it costs to use these chargers?? Do they charge by time, or how much used, or are they just free??

I went to the website listed at the bottom of that page but I couldn't find anything about these chargers.

Johno02 wrote:Just a question, does anybody have any idea what it costs to use these chargers?? Do they charge by time, or how much used, or are they just free??Well, it depends. We use DCFC or DC fast chargers when we do longer trips. Otherwise, like most EV drivers we charge at home as its cheaper. So the most expensive place an EV driver can charge an EV is a DC fast charger. Typically they are about 30 to 35 cents per kilowatt hour but depending on the network they are on you can pay a flat monthly fee and get a reduced per KWH charge. I am not on one of those plans so I can't tell you much about that. Like I say, you pay for the fast charge convenience. It's always cheaper to charge at home. They also mentioned a level 2 charger. That is typically a slower 6.8KW to 10 KWH charge rate. These are usually co-located at a DCFC site as emergency back up. They are much less in price, maybe half, but again depends on the network. Many level 2 fast chargers you see at shopping malls and restaurants are free but they are used as loss leaders by the business. EG, you go to Starbucks that has a level 2 charger and have lunch and a coffee for 12 bucks and they give you 30 cents worth of power free. Kinda like a restaurant using a coupon to get you there. Instead they don't have to print anything and instead of a 2 buck coupon its 30 or 40 cents of power. We are pay as you go costumers on three different networks but have pre paid RFID cards that we just flash in front of the charger. It deducts from the card automatically. I put 50 bucks on my "add energy" card a year ago and I still have about 28 bucks left. Like I said, we only use it on longer trips. We do 95 percent of our charging in the garage.Oh, on edit, the Tesla guys charge for free (for now) on their supercharger network. But that's why they pay 35,000 for a base model 3 and a leaf owner pays 22,000 for a base model leaf. Well, that and the fact they go twice as far on a charge. :). Meh.

I am waiting for the day when there is an electric pickup truck that can tow my trailer and go 400 miles without recharging. It'll happen, but probably not in my lifetime.

profdant139 wrote:I am waiting for the day when there is an electric pickup truck that can tow my trailer and go 400 miles without recharging. It'll happen, but probably not in my lifetime.Yes that would be kinda cool. And yes probably 7 to 10 years away. But they are about half way there already. A tesla x can pull its rated load (5000 pounds if I recall) about 200 miles. Freakin expensive though. 120 grand or so. Meh. It'll get cheaper.

Utah's National Park Electric Corridor. | Good Sam Community

John___Angela
Explorer
Aug 08, 2017
LenSatic wrote:
"Cool pics. Thanks for sharing. Are you completely off grid?"

Yep, 100%. That doesn't mean we are self-sufficient, though. Propane is delivered once or twice a year. Basically our home is a scaled-up RV.

I'm jealous. :) We have a very basic emergency backup type system. 2 X group 31 AGM batteries, a 300 amp fuse, a 2.5 KW sine wave inverter/charger with transfer switch. It is fed to a subpanel with 6 critical 110 circuits for lights, fans. entertainment centres, garage door, security system etc. No 220 so no furnace and no range. The fireplace is natural gas and functions without power so thats our emergency heat. Water heater is natural gas. Have to live without central air in a blackout as well. We have two 160 watt portable panels that we can connect to pre-wired quick connects to charge the batteries. We thought about using a honda 3000 watt generator but that meant storing it and gas in the garage. Since both our vehicles are electric we have no need for any other type of fuel so it would kinda clash. And besides I have consistently bad luck with gennys. Long story. Are any of your vehicles electric. If so consider adding one of these to the stable. Don't think our town house board will let us put one in the driveway. :) Self contained, arrives on a truck, sets up in 10 minutes.
LenSatic
Explorer
Aug 08, 2017
"Are any of your vehicles electric."

No. A Tahoe and Jeep Wrangler. Both are 4wd, otherwise we've never get home during the Monsoon season.

Here's our garage roof:

Fifteen 220W panels. Ironically, Summer is the worst time for our solar system here in SE AZ because the sun rises and sets way farther north of the axis of our panels. We are going to add some east-facing panels on the house for next year.

The garage door in the pic is the pull-through bay where the Casita resides.

LS
John___Angela
Explorer
Aug 08, 2017
LenSatic wrote:
"Are any of your vehicles electric."

No. A Tahoe and Jeep Wrangler. Both are 4wd, otherwise we've never get home during the Monsoon season.

Here's our garage roof:

Fifteen 220W panels. Ironically, Summer is the worst time for our solar system here in SE AZ because the sun rises and sets way farther north of the axis of our panels. We are going to add some east-facing panels on the house for next year.

The garage door in the pic is the pull-through bay where the Casita resides.

LS

Nice Len. Looks like a great set up. Allthough the town house life has more pluses than negatives for us, one down side is not being able to do the kind of thing you have done. Next year we will be approaching the board to see how open they are to solar on the roof. We love it here, small community, great security, easy to come and go and for us that is important as we are big time travellers.

Thanks for sharing the pics and the knowledge.

J and A
NinerBikes
Explorer
Aug 27, 2017
John & Angela wrote:
LenSatic wrote:
"Cool pics. Thanks for sharing. Are you completely off grid?"

Yep, 100%. That doesn't mean we are self-sufficient, though. Propane is delivered once or twice a year. Basically our home is a scaled-up RV.

I'm jealous. :) We have a very basic emergency backup type system. 2 X group 31 AGM batteries, a 300 amp fuse, a 2.5 KW sine wave inverter/charger with transfer switch. It is fed to a subpanel with 6 critical 110 circuits for lights, fans. entertainment centres, garage door, security system etc. No 220 so no furnace and no range. The fireplace is natural gas and functions without power so thats our emergency heat. Water heater is natural gas. Have to live without central air in a blackout as well. We have two 160 watt portable panels that we can connect to pre-wired quick connects to charge the batteries. We thought about using a honda 3000 watt generator but that meant storing it and gas in the garage. Since both our vehicles are electric we have no need for any other type of fuel so it would kinda clash. And besides I have consistently bad luck with gennys. Long story. Are any of your vehicles electric. If so consider adding one of these to the stable. Don't think our town house board will let us put one in the driveway. :) Self contained, arrives on a truck, sets up in 10 minutes.

How much for the solar panel setup up? I drive a Vw 2015 e-Golf SEL that I bought. Looks like about 12 amps at 240V capable. Not quite 3 Kwh capable charge rate.
Edit: seems those are EV ARC4's made in San Diego, CA. About 4 kwh capable, has batteries to store a charge, etc. About $40,000. Self contained EVSE charger for electric vehicles.
time2roll
Nomad
Aug 27, 2017
profdant139 wrote:
I am waiting for the day when there is an electric pickup truck that can tow my trailer and go 400 miles without recharging.

It'll happen, but probably not in my lifetime.
I would be happy with a plug-in hybrid that would go 80 to 150 miles on electric. Skip the transmission and just have a direct drive engine for highway use.
time2roll
Nomad
Aug 27, 2017
pnichols wrote:
I wonder how long it will be before the Free Enterprize System prices electricity from EV recharging stations such that it costs about as much (or more, years into the future) per mile - based on some average and ever-changing pricing formula - to drive them as an equivalent size gasoline or diesel powered vehicle?

I can't imagine free or dirt cheap EV "refueling" lasting too long into the future. Cheap refueling electricity is probably viewed as a "loss leader product" right now to get us into the EV buying mood.
With a few (6 or 10) L2 stations for free most businesses would not even notice a blip in the total electric bill. Although it would most likely bring in more sales.

Actually by the time the commercial equipment is installed to monitor and collect a fee the cost is probably higher than giving out the electric for free with an open un-metered connection.
LenSatic
Explorer
Aug 27, 2017
NinerBikes wrote:
LenSatic wrote:
"Cool pics. Thanks for sharing. Are you completely off grid?"

Yep, 100%. That doesn't mean we are self-sufficient, though. Propane is delivered once or twice a year. Basically our home is a scaled-up RV.

About $40,000. Self contained EVSE charger for electric vehicles.

I know that the question wasn't for me but, as a comparison, our whole house system was $45,000. (That was the cost before our tax incentives. I'm not sure what our real cost was. We didn't owe any Fed Income tax for 5 years and, since everything was purchased in AZ, there was no sales tax either.)

LS
John___Angela
Explorer
Aug 27, 2017
It's a San Diego based company. It depends on the size of the battery etc. Not cheap though. Anywhere from 25000 to 45000. It can be used as well to supplement the house needs etc. We own a town house so not going to work for us but otherwise would have been neat.
time2roll
Nomad
Aug 27, 2017
pnichols wrote:
I'm not a fan of individual solar setups at personal residences. I'd rather see the grid still supplying the bulk of personal residence power - including EV charging - but with grid power becoming cheaper and cheaper as large solar and wind farms feeding the grid come on line more and more across the U.S.. IMHO, that's the most efficient way for non-fossil power to benefit the masses and Planet Earth -> use the huge grid system that is already in place but feed it with solar and wind generated energy. (My thouughts on solar and wind sourcing of power are assuming that nuclear fusion power is still a long way off, or impossible.)

My payback will be five years. That is a 20 percent return on my money. My best investment in quite a while.

I like the idea of distributed solar. Less need for transmission lines into the city or remote areas. My house was built with a 200 amp panel and all the infrastructure to support that power level. Add a battery to the mix and I could easily do fine with 20 or 30 amp service.

That would be 85 to 90 percent reduction in the infrastructure needed for my home. Or to say it another way that 200 amp service could support 8 to 10 homes instead of one. This would reduce grid costs that are currently more than half the cost of power in Southern California.
John___Angela
Explorer
Aug 27, 2017
time2roll wrote:
pnichols wrote:
I wonder how long it will be before the Free Enterprize System prices electricity from EV recharging stations such that it costs about as much (or more, years into the future) per mile - based on some average and ever-changing pricing formula - to drive them as an equivalent size gasoline or diesel powered vehicle?

I can't imagine free or dirt cheap EV "refueling" lasting too long into the future. Cheap refueling electricity is probably viewed as a "loss leader product" right now to get us into the EV buying mood.
With a few (6 or 10) L2 stations for free most businesses would not even notice a blip in the total electric bill. Although it would most likely bring in more sales.

Actually by the time the commercial equipment is installed to monitor and collect a fee the cost is probably higher than giving out the electric for free with an open un-metered connection.

Yep. It's already a proven loss leader marketing tool. EV drivers will shop or eat at restaurants where they can hook up and charge for free. It's the coupon cutting crowd that it works for. Ever clip a two for one entree coupon for a restaurant? But it's cheaper for the restaurant to give away a buck worth of power than making a 5 dollar coupon. Lots of people live in Condos where there is no facility to charge an EV. These folks will frequent malls, shopping areas and restaurants where they can charge while going about their daily routine. We do ninety percent of our charging at home but admit that we tend to gravitate to establishments that have charging infrastructure.

Re-rising electricity costs. Maybe. But utility companies also have to compete with private homeowners and business owners capability to make their own power. Solar power and storage products like the Tesla wall will keep the Utility companies "honest". If utility companies charge stupid rates people will just go off grid...or at least those who can depending where they live etc. The average EV usage in North America uses about the equivalent of a residential water heater for a family of 4 so it doesn't take a ton of solar and storage to deal with the energy needs of an EV. I think the next ten years will see a fair amount of growth in home storage. Should be interesting.