Added an illuminated switch to power water heater

bob213 wrote:

bob213 wrote:
I believe the reasoning is that he's not cycling the switch. It's left in the on position all the time. Guess it would still have to carry the load. I don't know if turning it on and off is a factor in it's failure or just the ability to handle the load.

You are absolutely correct in your assumption, Bob. The problem lies in the fact that turning in on or off while the element is energized (thermostat calling for it). After Larry questioned the post I reposted with a slight correction in my wording, which may help to clarify the OP.

bob213 wrote:
bluka43.. tried to send you a Pm without success so.....

I'm sorry but I'm a little confused on the wiring for the switch. Looking at the front of the switch (toggle on top) I'm using top left for black hot from breaker. Right top is red that is wire nutted to black wire that was removed from breaker. White wire is bottom left and then back to buss block on panel?
I'm not really electrical literate but I can do just about anything if you tell me how. Just want to make sure before I blow something up. Thanks for the help, Bob

Bob, that sounds like you have it....but it's been a while since I've done this mod, and it's late right now, but I'll go into the RV tomorrow because I don't remember if there is a link between one of the switches screws and the pilot light, or not. I'll get back with you tomorrow. Oh, also sorry about not getting the PM. I'm kind of a a new member and I may have to activate it???

so I don't see how one could read that any other way than I did and again I don't see how this mod did anything to help anything and in fact has reduced the overall reliability since now you have introduced a second "failure" point in addition to the orignal one irregardless of how reliable that second "failure" point might be.

I just see this mod and the way it was done as having the opposite effect of what the stated reasons for it in the first place was and would not recommend others doing it this way.

Larry


I didn't mean for this to become so difficult. There is a problem with those tiny rocker switches when used to turn the WH Off or On while the element is energized. I guess I should have stated that it'll carry the current of the element if left alone in the on position. I don't think that it was designed to take the arcing of the tiny contacts when the WH element is On. If you ever took one apart, you'll wonder why it ever worked at all. It will sooner or later fail...as I've seen at least 4 others besides mine. I'm sure that mine failed in the On position, so I left it like that. If it ever presents a problem, I'll take it out and replace it with something else or just connect the two wires together and tape them up. The contacts may very well be welded shut for all I know. I do know it won't shut off. I don't know why the switch is out there anyway, unless it has to do with code.
We're all here to help each other and/or give ideas or suggestions to one another. I know I've read some great things on this forum.
Thanks,

LarryJM wrote:

bob213 wrote:
I believe the reasoning is that he's not cycling the switch. It's left in the on position all the time. Guess it would still have to carry the load. I don't know if turning it on and off is a factor in it's failure or just the ability to handle the load.

Well his EXACT WORDS were

the tiny rocker switch located in the WH compartment outside isn't designed to carry the required current that the water heater uses

so I don't see how one could read that any other way than I did and again I don't see how this mod did anything to help anything and in fact has reduced the overall reliability since now you have introduced a second "failure" point in addition to the orignal one irregardless of how reliable that second "failure" point might be.

I just see this mod and the way it was done as having the opposite effect of what the stated reasons for it in the first place was and would not recommend others doing it this way.

Larry

The contacts in the OEM switch fail from make/break of current.
Leaving it in ON position it just becomes a path for current.

Yes.........better way would be to eliminate the OEM switch but sometimes access etc. make that more difficult.

bob213 wrote:
I believe the reasoning is that he's not cycling the switch. It's left in the on position all the time. Guess it would still have to carry the load. I don't know if turning it on and off is a factor in it's failure or just the ability to handle the load.

Well his EXACT WORDS were

the tiny rocker switch located in the WH compartment outside isn't designed to carry the required current that the water heater uses

so I don't see how one could read that any other way than I did and again I don't see how this mod did anything to help anything and in fact has reduced the overall reliability since now you have introduced a second "failure" point in addition to the orignal one irregardless of how reliable that second "failure" point might be.

I just see this mod and the way it was done as having the opposite effect of what the stated reasons for it in the first place was and would not recommend others doing it this way.

Larry

I believe the reasoning is that he's not cycling the switch. It's left in the on position all the time. Guess it would still have to carry the load. I don't know if turning it on and off is a factor in it's failure or just the ability to handle the load.

bluka43 wrote:
As others have stated, and I fully agree, the tiny rocker switch located in the WH compartment outside isn't designed to carry the required current that the water heater uses. I was using mine to turn the WH on and off each time the RV was in use. After about a year or so, I noticed that it started getting hard to turn off and on, so I left it in the on position, and was using the breaker. Knowing that a breaker was not intended to be used as a switch, because it will eventually weaken it, I decided to install a dedicated switch with a light incorporated into it. I mounted the switch in the cabinet next to where the power for the slide switches are. That way we won't forget to turn the WH power on or off when we put the slides out or in. But, we do make sure the water is turned on and that the WH has water in it. Water and power to the RV is the first thing that I do after leveling and unhooking from the tow vehicle. Photo attached.

I guess I'm missing something, but one of your main complaints and reasons for doing this mod was the existing switch was not designed for the load so please explain how this mod solves that issue since it appears you have left the existing switch in the circuit so that flaw in your own words seems to still be there ...:h

Larry

bluka43.. tried to send you a Pm without success so.....

I'm sorry but I'm a little confused on the wiring for the switch. Looking at the front of the switch (toggle on top) I'm using top left for black hot from breaker. Right top is red that is wire nutted to black wire that was removed from breaker. White wire is bottom left and then back to buss block on panel?
I'm not really electrical literate but I can do just about anything if you tell me how. Just want to make sure before I blow something up. Thanks for the help, Bob

bluka43 wrote:

bob213 wrote:
Do you just remove the wires from the outside switch and run from there?

Well, no...the rocker switch is still there and in the on position. I just don't use it any more. First I cut the hole for the switch box and then I dropped a 14/3 wire down to the circuit breaker panel. (I was fortunate that the panel is located in the bathroom cabinet and back to back of the wall where the switch is) I removed the wire hot wire from the circuit breaker and replaced it with the black wire of the 14/3 for the hot to the switch. The red wire in the 14/3 is wire nutted in the panel to the wire that came off the breaker, and the white wire of the 14/3 as a neutral for the light on the switch when in the on position.

Thank you bluka43. Sounds like my next project!

North Trail had the 2 switch system so I always left the outside switch on when we had it. Had the light up toggle inside.