I thought that after retiring I wouldn't have to smell burned up electrical parts anymore. Last year I wanted to add LED lights to my FW but also had a ton of other stuff to do. I didn't want to make a research project out of it and I noticed LED's in CW and figured they would have good quality stuff so I paid the price and bought about 10 of them. This year I wanted to put one in the stove top vent and 2 outside and bought them off ebay. I turned on a few lights to check the draw with my Bogart 2030 and after a few minutes I noticed the burning electrical smell. I shut them off and found the one in the stove top was smoking. I removed it with a rag and it fell apart. I contacted the Ebay seller and since they are lost they cant answer simple questions about it. I asked for a refund and they said sure but I have to give 4 stars positive review. Sure thing goofball, I'll give a positive review so someone else may possibly start a fire with your garbage. Like an RV hasn't got enough issues already. They had also told me to reverse the polarity. I had bought 2 of them so I hooked the other one up outside to see what would happen. It lit when connected so I reversed the leads and it didn't work at all. ok so now we know that it will only work one way. I reversed the leads again and it lit up. After about 5 minutes it started to smoke so I shot it with my temp gun and it registered 318 degrees and a few of the led's were flickering. At one point I believe I saw 389 degrees flash on the screen. This was at 12.52 voltsMaybe CW price wasn't so bad. I haven't been nervous about the ones from CW but I would be about this junk. The other 2 bulbs in the outdoor work lights dont seem too hot. They are from a different seller. Dang, that price of 2 for $8.00 with free shipping WAS too good to be true. :)

Hopefully TucsonJim will chime in. He seems to be the go to guy on the board for LED info. He's been there, done that. I saved his profile just in case.

So what do you believe was the inherent problem with your E Bay LED's?

I've bought only the eBay LED bulbs because I wasn't sure what I wanted or of their light output/intensity. eBay LEDs can be a cheap way to try things out, see if we like them.I had one batch of 6 that had about a 50% failure rate. Of the other batches, I have 10 or so in the RV, they're doing fine after 5 months of light (pun intended) use.I do think we get what we pay for. I've had color variation and quality issues. But my outlay was also about 1/10th of what it would have been at CW.Now, I think I know what I want.So when these cheapies die, I'll invest in some quality ones.

I understand the product was bad but is that the sellers fault?The analogy is when a product from CW turns out to be defective do you blame CW or the manufacturer? The answer is the manufacturer. Of course you return it to the seller and he handles it for you as a courtesy but your beef is with the manufacturer.I think your blame misplaced. Seller deserves a rating based on the sellers performance not the performance of the product you bought. That is why the seller wants a great review from you first so you do not bash the seller unnecessarily and inappropriately.

westend wrote:So what do you believe was the inherent problem with your E Bay LED's?I'm not a EE, but I've read that their lacking a resistor (I think) that other quality boards would have. Since these are coming from China, I would think Quality Control is suspect as well as they could be line rejects.

I thought it was over | Good Sam Community

37 Replies

langenc
Explorer
Jun 22, 2015
darsben wrote:
I understand the product was bad but is that the sellers fault?
The analogy is when a product from CW turns out to be defective do you blame CW or the manufacturer? The answer is the manufacturer. Of course you return it to the seller and he handles it for you as a courtesy but your beef is with the manufacturer.

I think your blame misplaced. Seller deserves a rating based on the sellers performance not the performance of the product you bought. That is why the seller wants a great review from you first so you do not bash the seller unnecessarily and inappropriately.

But once the seller knows the product is junk they get to take the 'heat'.
Onespeed405
Explorer
Jun 21, 2015
I had real success with buying from:

www.ledtrailerlights.com

Pull out the old bulb pop in the new. I did not detect a polarity issue. DW was very happy. Have only used them 1 weekend (dry camping) but so far so good.

We like the color. Warm white. Bright or brighter then the incandescent ones I took out. (921's)

Replaced only inside bulbs, except over stove (too hot I thought), and the long fluorescent fixtures. The vanity ones were a different base. (1141's I think)
Dave-Sparky
Explorer
Jun 19, 2015
Several years ago I did an analysis of the performance of some of the "cheap" LED panels that I had bought and posted it here.

that was in August of 2011. I am happy to report that these LED panels are all still working well. Of the 13 panels in active use in my trailer I have had only one row of three LEDs in one panel fail.

I have been very pleased with my LED panels.

Dave
Bucky1320
Explorer
Jun 19, 2015
Vulcan Rider wrote:
bdpreece wrote:

Actually normal is the lower the voltage supplied the higher the current draw which is why most electronic devices burn up on low voltage.

You have been given some bad information.

"Most" electronic devices, when presented with an input voltage lower than it's design limit just simply stops working.

Now some motors in heavy duty applications can attempt to draw extra current if the voltage drops......but that doesn't happen without some control circuitry being involved. Most often when a motor burns up from low voltage it's because it overheats due to overload, meaning that it can't supply the necessary energy to move the load anymore and overheats as the rotational speed goes down.

I=E/R simple says: if the applied voltage goes down, so does the current flow.

Thankfully a post from someone who understands how electricity works!
azrving
Explorer
Jun 15, 2015
Still waiting for a refund but I contacted the seller again and asked if these bulbs could be run for hours at a time. I said that regular bulbs can be turned on and safely stay on for long periods of time.

This is their reply: "Thank you for your message it only work with 12 volt, what about yours? and could yu check connection the bad connection will cause burn". No point in continuing to even try to discuss it with them for the betterment of their products or service. It is what it is.

Yes my connection was the same wedge base that my incandescent bulb had been plugged into and left on for hours. The voltage was at 12.5 without the converter being on. No matter if in in RV or automotive use it's just normal to see voltages up to 14.2. Auto charging systems operate between 13.7 and 14.2 with some even going to 14.5. A bulb left on when connected to a running tow vehicle could see these voltages.

Moral of the story is along the lines of what some of you have mentioned, you can buy cheap ones and throw some in the trash and monitor closely so you dont have any fire issues. I do feel much more comfortable with the ones I bought at CW and they often see 15.3 volts.
colliehauler
Explorer III
Jun 14, 2015
I use Yitamotor on ebay to buy my led's. They are out of Bellevue Washington. They have 70873 positive 397 neutral and 203 negative rating.

I don't know how they will hold up in the long run. His site shows the difference on how some led's are built.

Only time will tell, but I have very little money in the led's.
4x4van
Explorer III
Jun 14, 2015
Wow, so many opinions on inexpensive LEDs. Here's one more: Nearly 2 years ago I replaced every single bulb in my RV with LEDs Here's the details.. That's more than 25 bulbs. Total cost was less than $125, even including the 18' strip on my awning. Some with bulb style, some with flat panel style, many with at least 48 individual LEDs, EVERY single one of them were cheap LEDs from Amazon and eBay, NONE of them had current regulators (which can and do cause RFI). I use them both while boondocking, as well as with full hookups (up to 14.5V). I have checked temperatures; none have exceeded 225 degrees after several hours at 14.5v in ambient temps of 90+ degrees (which coincidentally is less than HALF of the temps of an incandescent). I have measured very little difference in either current or temps regardless of whether I am running at 12V or 14v. And I have not had a single failure...not ONE. I have several friends who have done the same as me. And many on this site (and others) have had the same experience.

I spent very little, cut my current by 80%, increased my light output by at least double, DECREASED the temperature of my fixtures, have NO interference on my TV or radio from RFI...and yet by reading this thread you'd think that I would have burned my RV down by now since I didn't pay 5-10X more for LEDs from CW. Yes, SOME cheap LEDs are bad quality, but not all. Where do you think that CW buys their LEDs prior to a 500-1000% markup? :?
azrving
Explorer
Jun 12, 2015
TInmania wrote:
rjxj wrote:

Again, I have never seen any bulb with a duty cycle. They didn't say it had a limited time that it could be ON. Have you ever seen or bought or heard of a bulb that is sold and it say do not leave this bulb on for more than X amount of time or it will go over 300 degrees and start to smoke and disintegrate. You are just assuming this only because you consider it to be intermittent because its being listed as a back up light. A dome light isn't on for long but if you were to forget and leave it on it doesn't go into melt down.

You said: " I'd say that LED had a definite time limit and you reached it". Again, where is any bulb listed like a welder or other device which does have a duty cycle?

It didn't reach some time limit, it's just junk that was not properly engineered. Simple as that.

Yes it is junk--at least many of them are. But my point is they can get away with that junk more easily for automotive use--for which the bulbs were likely originally designed--than for RVs.

Nothing to do with a rated duty cycle (though with iffy Chinese electronics I take that with a grain of salt). The engineering that went into those things likely was copied from another, who also copied it from another--with degradation at each itineration (if only for cost savings on labor and/or materials).

Now what if you happened to test that bulb for only 2 minutes and all seemed fine. Then one night left the light on and it ended up causing a fire? To me the cost difference for decent--and that does not mean expensive--LED bulbs are worth it. Amazon has more than enough "burned up," "smoked" and similar comments for me to take a chance--and generally Amazon doesn't have the straight-from-China sellers like ebay does.

Mike

OK, Thanks. I see what you mean now. Engineer it to the minimum. Don't put the diode or whatever in it and accept some failures. Got it. Like I mentioned, I really dont want to learn much about led's but thank you for the tip about Amazon.
Vulcan_Rider
Explorer
Jun 12, 2015
bdpreece wrote:

Actually normal is the lower the voltage supplied the higher the current draw which is why most electronic devices burn up on low voltage.

You have been given some bad information.

"Most" electronic devices, when presented with an input voltage lower than it's design limit just simply stops working.

Now some motors in heavy duty applications can attempt to draw extra current if the voltage drops......but that doesn't happen without some control circuitry being involved. Most often when a motor burns up from low voltage it's because it overheats due to overload, meaning that it can't supply the necessary energy to move the load anymore and overheats as the rotational speed goes down.

I=E/R simple says: if the applied voltage goes down, so does the current flow.
TInmania
Explorer
Jun 12, 2015
rjxj wrote:

Again, I have never seen any bulb with a duty cycle. They didn't say it had a limited time that it could be ON. Have you ever seen or bought or heard of a bulb that is sold and it say do not leave this bulb on for more than X amount of time or it will go over 300 degrees and start to smoke and disintegrate. You are just assuming this only because you consider it to be intermittent because its being listed as a back up light. A dome light isn't on for long but if you were to forget and leave it on it doesn't go into melt down.

You said: " I'd say that LED had a definite time limit and you reached it". Again, where is any bulb listed like a welder or other device which does have a duty cycle?

It didn't reach some time limit, it's just junk that was not properly engineered. Simple as that.

Yes it is junk--at least many of them are. But my point is they can get away with that junk more easily for automotive use--for which the bulbs were likely originally designed--than for RVs.

Nothing to do with a rated duty cycle (though with iffy Chinese electronics I take that with a grain of salt). The engineering that went into those things likely was copied from another, who also copied it from another--with degradation at each itineration (if only for cost savings on labor and/or materials).

Now what if you happened to test that bulb for only 2 minutes and all seemed fine. Then one night left the light on and it ended up causing a fire? To me the cost difference for decent--and that does not mean expensive--LED bulbs are worth it. Amazon has more than enough "burned up," "smoked" and similar comments for me to take a chance--and generally Amazon doesn't have the straight-from-China sellers like ebay does.

Mike

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I thought it was over

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