Blue Flame vs Infrared

MandMkuzie wrote:
Right now the suburban furnace doesn't ignite, I'm assuming the orifice needs cleaned. Working on that tomorrow.

Eventually we will most likely put in a new furnace,thanks alboy for the recommendation.

I suggest that you put just a little time and effort into fixing the furnace. Igniters often go bad. It needs 12 V power for the controls.
It runs off the batteries during a power failure.

Despite your best efforts, ventless heaters in a small space are always risky. As a temporary fix, small electric heaters are much better, if you have shore power of course.

Thanks for the input. Everything in this rig is original (from 1996), and could use updating. Eventually we will replace it all, but finances dictate doing it systematically. We are full time in our RV and are stationary at a campground. Right now the suburban furnace doesn't ignite, I'm assuming the orifice needs cleaned. Working on that tomorrow.

I've been doing quite a bit of research on the ventless wall units, and not seeing a problem, provided we open a window. I'm also trying to plan ahead provided we lose power.

Eventually we will most likely put in a new furnace,thanks alboy for the recommendation.

I found this article which may give you some help. It discusses just about all the various heating methods that can be used for RVs. I found it quite interesting.:)
Barney

While the furnace is fine while connected at a campground, the fan uses up a lot of battery power when dry camping as well as sending a lot of heat out the exhaust vent. I got a Mr Buddy to take the edge off while WalMart or other dry camping when just covering distance. It gets shut off at bed time and a comforter is added to the bed. I have gotten up after a good night of sleep to find it was 40 degrees in the RV. That is when I turn on the furnace.

Just a possible option for you.We started having a problem with our 8 yr old suburban 30000 btu furnace.I was never happy with the output plus very noisy.Installed a new 40000 btu whisper quiet unit that fit right in.Cost was 1200 $$ can.That is what should have been put in to start with,worth every penny.Very quiet and fast to heat.

MandMkuzie wrote:
Yes we have a furnace, but after reading about their lack of efficiency I want to have something better. I am planning to install the wall heater near a window because of the venting issue.

I don't think you have thought this through all the way.

If you vent properly to prevent moisture and CO buildup, I think you might very well end up with LESS gas efficiency than the furnace will provide you.

And you will have expended a LOT of time and money to accomplish little or nothing.

If you are going to cut into a wall, you could install a vented unit with a fan. But that would be roughly equivalent to the "furnace" that you already have.

I think you are putting WAY too much stock in those people who complain about the lack of efficiency with their stock furnace......and a perceived ability to fix the problem.

Hi Richard,

As O2 levels drop Catalytic heaters DO produce CO and unlike a blue flame do not self extinguish.

It is not safe to use an unvented combustion heater.

richardcoxid wrote:


Catalytic heater- Olympic Wave 3 (3,000BTU max), Wave 6 (6,000BTU max), Wave 8 (8,000BTU max) and others, Radiant Heater.

No open blue flame, however during operation the "pad" is orange hot! DOES NOT PRODUCE CO however to support the catalytic action they DO consume O2, 99% plus heat efficient. A small open flame is used only when starting the catalytic action. They will also KILL you (from lack of O2) if not vented properly (see above about cracked open windows) Dust is the worst enemy of the Platinum pad, keep covered when not in use.

The natural state of everything is cold, the natural flow of heat is from hot to cold. I.e. Without the sun this old earth would be a frozen mass of ice and stuff spinning around in space.

There are three primary methods of heat transfer- Radiation, Conduction and Convection.

Radiation- This is how the Sun warms the earth. On a sunny winter day when your Cat hops up onto a windowsill or your Dog lays on the carpet and follows the warm spot created by the Sun this is Radiation. I.e. Radiation warms objects. This is why when you stand if front of a Radiant heater (campfire) you immediately feel hot on your front while your back is still cold.

Conduction- Physical contact or transfer of heat thru an object. I re-learned just the other day when I accidentally touched the exhaust manifold of my wife's car with the back of my hand that exhaust manifolds are HOT!

Convection- Cold is more dense and falls, Hot is less dense and rises. Normally heat radiators
and forced air heat ducts in your house are placed next to the outside walls under or next to Windows and Doors. (thermostats are placed on a inside wall) Not always true on your RV, because of floor plans, cabinets, below floor level holding tanks, frame members etc. it is almost impossible.

If you look at it objectively there is normally more than one method of heat transfer involved at the same time.

Now about space heaters-

120VAC Electric- This includes Hot Air (Convection), Cube/Ceramic/Hot Oil- (Convection and Radiant) etc.

No matter what kind of heater, if the power cord has the standard residential two parallel flat prongs with a grounding pin it is a MAXIMUM of 15 Amps. Go to your local Hardware store and look at their electrical receptacles and compare their pin configuration/voltage/amperage rating

Now we have to complicate things a little-
Volts (V)- pressure, Amps (A)- volume, flow, and Watts (W)- total power consumed. V x A= W (think of water flow thru a 1" dia. pipe vs a 2" dia. pipe)
Small portable space heaters are limited to 1500W or 12.5A.
This is true even with the just discovered "plug in space heater that will heat your whole house for just pennies a day!" This is nothing more than VERY expensive ($200.00 to $300.00) Radiant 1500W heater enclosed in a particle board box! Remember if it plugs in your house receptacle IT IS 1500W Max! You can go to HD/Lowes and get their $29 Hot Air Electric Heater and get the same amount of heat for a lot less money!

Now, how much heat is 1500W? We have to complicate things a little more.

The standard measurement of heat is the BTU (British Thermal Unit) defined as "that quantity of heat that will change the temperature of one pound of water one degree Fahrenheit" My handy dandy little conversion reference book states that W (watts) times 3.41214 equals BTU. So 1500W times 3.41214 equals 5118.1BTU. So finally we are talking about something that we can all understand- A small 1500W electric space heater produces a little more than 5,000BTU of heat. As a comparison the Propane forced air furnace in my RV is 40,000 BTU and the furnace in my house is 106,000 BTU.

Now to talk a little about "Blue Flame/Catalytic Heaters

Blue Flame Heater- Radiant/Convection, Non-vented (maybe some can be vented to the out side, I don't know) open flame space heater often times with a metal/ceramic element to enhance the Radiant Heat effect. I have heard of "dry campers" putting a Terre Cotta flower pot over a range burner with about the same results! (I think that the small burners on a standard RV 3 burner stove is about 5,000-6,000 BTU while the single big burner is about 9,000 BTU) BOTH METHODS PRODUCE CO (carbon monoxide- colorless, odorless, tasteless gas) and they consume O2 (Oxygen) BOTH WILL KILL YOU IF NOT VENTED PROPERLY!, I.e. A low window cracked open at one end of your RV and a high window cracked open at the other end! (remember convection heat transfer) Disclaimer- Use at your own risk! Not recommend for RV non vented use!

Catalytic heater- Olympic Wave 3 (3,000BTU max), Wave 6 (6,000BTU max), Wave 8 (8,000BTU max) and others, Radiant Heater.

No open blue flame, however during operation the "pad" is orange hot! DOES NOT PRODUCE CO however to support the catalytic action they DO consume O2, 99% plus heat efficient. A small open flame is used only when starting the catalytic action. They will also KILL you (from lack of O2) if not vented properly (see above about cracked open windows) Dust is the worst enemy of the Platinum pad, keep covered when not in use.

Go on line and read the operating instructions/warnings for ANY open blue flame/catalytic space heater!

We spend about 2 months.every winter boondocking (BLM land along the Colorado River) using a Wave 6 (6,000 BTU Catalytic Htr).

Yes we have a furnace, but after reading about their lack of efficiency I want to have something better. I am planning to install the wall heater near a window because of the venting issue. It will also be going in the middle of the 5er and I plan to use fans to circulate the air to both bedrooms.. this is why I was leaning toward the blue flame.

Yes we have a furnace, but after reading about their lack of efficiency I want to have something better. I am planning to install the wall heater near a window because of the venting issue. It will also be going in the middle of the 5er and I plan to use fans to circulate the air to both bedrooms.. this is why I was leaving Ingraham toward the blue flame.