Duravis R250 or M895?

FYI Goodyear Marathon Eu commercial truck tires which are designed for all positions on European commercial trucks depending on tread design are a full steel cased radial tire like the Bridgestone and Michelin we have been discussing. Goodyear is the only tire company claiming to be making this ST tire with special design features in North America which they claim is good for 10% more than any LT tire of the same size. Amazingly nowhere does it actually show or state the actual construction but all commercial trailer tires use steel in the sidewalls. Phil I do not know why your trailer started to sway more with R250's except maybe the sidewalls with 80 psi are actually stiffer in the sidewalls and are transmitting more road imperfections to the trailer. I know this isn't a technical solution but unless you're unit has become dangerous and swaying outside the road lines just drive her. The boys hauling triples used to say stop looking in the mirror so much you're just scaring yourself. I looked at your trailer specs and the only thing your bracing did was stiffen the existing frame but you're trailer is way lighter than mine and 2' shorter. The unit came with load range D 15" tires and you uprated to E's on 16" so I would try 60-65 psi which would allow the load to ride more on the outside of the tire placing more load directly on the sidewall. I would just check sidewall temp occasionally although like I said you are nowhere near what a lot of our trailers are for weight per inch of tire width.

pbar34 wrote:
Hi Chris,

I agree with most of your sentiment about ST tires and that is why I upgraded to 16" Duravis R250 tires from my 15" ST. I have been towing for a while and own several trailers (11 axles of ST tires, total), so I've seen my share of ST tire failures and have been a student on this forum and other forums of other tire failure stories. My experience is that the ST tire lamination process is unreliable for our heavy trailers.

This said, your exclamatory comment to me was that I must not have compared the R250 specs to the ST tires. Since I'm talking about sidewall stiffness here, my question to you remains what data do you have, which you think I didn't compare, that shows the R250 sidewalls are stiffer than an ST, Load E, 10 ply tire? I'm not doubting but asking for the data/info since every manufacturer's website that I have visited, including for LT tires, cite the stiffer sidewalls of the ST tire, when compared to an LT or passenger tire.

mrw8i - Not sure who your question or comment is directed but if it is to me, yes I do have three engineering degrees (not up to PhD just MSME) with a heavy emphasis on materials science in my engineering career. Doesn't make me a tire expert by any means! but I do understand mechanics and physics pretty well. For technical stuff, I typically do not put a lot of faith in much of what I read in a forum or on a manufacturer's website unless I can validate the info/data from other sources.


Thanks,
Phil

No not directed at you. At tire store workers in general. I don't trust everything they say, as they only know the marketing literature or what they are told by others they work with, if that.

My first and only ST blow out was after 100 miles. Hot desert driving, no more than 60 mph if that during that 100 mile drive. No manufacturing defect. Just poor design, namely the very thin sidewall on ST tires. 2 lane highway where the speed limit is 65mph, and trailers 55mph. Left turn approaching with a line of traffic behind me. So I need to pull into the left turn lane, come to a stop and then turn. The center median before the left turn lane is just painted lines to mark it. With all the traffic behind me and high speed I cheat a little when I move into the left turn lane by moving into the center median area just before the left turn lane, so the traffic behind me does not have to slow down as they pass me in the lane to the right. The median area not being an area where cars are normally driven so there is a small amount of debris, small rocks, etc. As I pull into that area, doing about 50mph a tire on the trailer blows. Turns by inspection by me and the tire dealer I went to 50 miles later it looks like something hit the sidewall puncturing the sidewall and the tire blew. The guess is a small rock got run over by a tire on the other side and flew across hitting the ST tire.

Since then I make sure my ST tires never run on the shoulder or in an area where traffic does not normally run at high speed.

I doubt that tire would have been punctured or blown if it had thicker sidewalls. That was my first time I actually saw how thin ST sidewalls were. I'm no engineer, but it just looks like a cheap tire, that could never be used on a car or truck but works okay with trailers, under the right circumstances. An ST tire seems like a design that is inexpensive, cheap to make, works for many trailer applications, is better than passenger car tires for trailers - but I don't think it is always the right tire for a trailer, especially heavy trailers that do a lot of highway miles.

Never seen a U-Haul trailer with ST tires.

I was typing my reply to Mark before I read your suggestion below. I'm running 80 psi now but will experiment with a lower pressure for kicks. I also tow a 21' boat behind my trailer. Same set up for the last 10 years and I hit the scales every year for confirmation that my wife didn't pack too much. My weights are always within 300 lbs of each other.

Since I've added 2"x2"x1/8" square tube cross members to the three spring hangers and reinforced the hangers (doubled their thickness), and reinforced the hangers to frame connections, I am confident that frame or hanger flex is not my problem.

Okay back to the OP's question...


Phil

P Kennedy wrote:
I don't know unless the axles and suspension are flexing more but I can't see the tires doing. My trailer has 6k axles and I am usually pretty consistent at 11600/11800 which puts me on the upper limit as well as the tires at 3042 lbs per tire. What I can tell you is the 1st trip with this pig was bringing it home on the stock GY Marathons it towed like a drunken rock. I was talking to the tire guy I dealt with for years on my class 8 trucks and suggested the R250 as I used to run a similar tire on the steering and trailers. Now I can tell you the trailer tows better behind my dually better than it ever did behind the pickup. It may be the air pressure you have them set at but it sounds like you are a lot lighter than a lot of us. Truck 10,600 + trailer 14,200 + 4700 boat behind and we are getting right up there but tows good and straight which you can see by watching the 2nd trailer. My suggestion would be adjust tire pressures to see if it makes a difference.

I don't know unless the axles and suspension are flexing more but I can't see the tires doing. My trailer has 6k axles and I am usually pretty consistent at 11600/11800 which puts me on the upper limit as well as the tires at 3042 lbs per tire. What I can tell you is the 1st trip with this pig was bringing it home on the stock GY Marathons it towed like a drunken rock. I was talking to the tire guy I dealt with for years on my class 8 trucks and suggested the R250 as I used to run a similar tire on the steering and trailers. Now I can tell you the trailer tows better behind my dually better than it ever did behind the pickup. It may be the air pressure you have them set at but it sounds like you are a lot lighter than a lot of us. Truck 10,600 + trailer 14,200 + 4700 boat behind and we are getting right up there but tows good and straight which you can see by watching the 2nd trailer. My suggestion would be adjust tire pressures to see if it makes a difference.

As far as sidewall stiffness, I can tell you the R250 is 2 to 3 times as thick rubber wise as a 10 ply st. When pushing on them side by side dismounted, I dont think there can be any question which one will be stiffer when mounted? I can also tell you I can just about push a st tire on a rim with my hands. Takes two men and a sledge hammer to get a R250 on the rim :p

Joking aside, you have to work to get a r250 mounted up.

Phil, one other theory that might make sense. You said you have more sway, which I take to mean, it had some sway before the tire swap? If so, the lower rolling resistance of the r250 may make whatever is causing your sway to be more pronounced? Kind of like when you apply just the trailer brakes to straighten out a tag trailer when it is swaying a bit. I have a triple axle toy hauler, with 6 tires on the ground it felt like the emergency brake was released when I swapped from ST's to the R250's.

Kind of odd, most posts I've read state 5ers are a very stable tow. Have you checked pin weight to see if it is in the proper range for the weight of the rig?

Best of luck getting to the cause of it and please post up when you get it figured out.We all learn that way. Safe travels, Mark

I tend to agree with you that the 2" is not a significant contributor to the sway I'm experiencing on my maiden (1,200 mile) voyage with the new wheels and tires. I've checked bearing pre load, hangers, frame, king pin and associated structure and all check out fine. I've towed this same rig for 10 years now and even to the same destination/roads as this last trip, where I've experienced the sway problem.

One of the areas I want to investigate further, under the premise that the sidewalls are less stiff than a ST Load E, 10 ply tire, is weight distribution. My axles are almost maxed out. They are 4,400 lb axles and on the scales, I am at 8,300 on the 5ver axles (same as its been over the last 10 years). I am wondering if those who are reporting great success with the Duravis R250 have more margin than I do and therefore, don't stress the sidewall strength as much (?). Pure speculative thinking at this point.


Phil

P Kennedy wrote:
The Bridgestone R series tire has been through several updates a premium commercial truck steering and trailer tire with a closed outside rib, rim protection bead and more square tread to sidewall profile due to a stiffer sidewall. I cannot without towing your trailer see why you would have more squirm in the tires but it does not do it on mine. 2" higher in a trailer despite rumors here does not create a detrimental high center of gravity causing sway 12" maybe. The majority of your trailer weight is no higher than 5' off the ground with the exception of the structure itself and is deceiving by looking at the profile from the front. Like Me Again mine rides like it is on rails and my truck is air ride so until the bag on the outward side of the curve is filled to match the difference it leans. Partially filled water and sewage tanks will cause weight to transfer to the outside in a curve. This can also cause minor sway on rutted roads where the narrow light truck front tracking is walking the edges of the ruts and the fluid sloshes. Your trailer should be in the ruts as they fairly close to the track of semi trailers your truck especially SRW are not. Wind is the biggest reason RV's sway due to the extensive surface area along the length of the unit combined with height.

Hi Chris,

I agree with most of your sentiment about ST tires and that is why I upgraded to 16" Duravis R250 tires from my 15" ST. I have been towing for a while and own several trailers (11 axles of ST tires, total), so I've seen my share of ST tire failures and have been a student on this forum and other forums of other tire failure stories. My experience is that the ST tire lamination process is unreliable for our heavy trailers.

This said, your exclamatory comment to me was that I must not have compared the R250 specs to the ST tires. Since I'm talking about sidewall stiffness here, my question to you remains what data do you have, which you think I didn't compare, that shows the R250 sidewalls are stiffer than an ST, Load E, 10 ply tire? I'm not doubting but asking for the data/info since every manufacturer's website that I have visited, including for LT tires, cite the stiffer sidewalls of the ST tire, when compared to an LT or passenger tire.

mrw8i - Not sure who your question or comment is directed but if it is to me, yes I do have three engineering degrees (not up to PhD just MSME) with a heavy emphasis on materials science in my engineering career. Doesn't make me a tire expert by any means! but I do understand mechanics and physics pretty well. For technical stuff, I typically do not put a lot of faith in much of what I read in a forum or on a manufacturer's website unless I can validate the info/data from other sources.


Thanks,
Phil

The Bridgestone R series tire has been through several updates a premium commercial truck steering and trailer tire with a closed outside rib, rim protection bead and more square tread to sidewall profile due to a stiffer sidewall. I cannot without towing your trailer see why you would have more squirm in the tires but it does not do it on mine. 2" higher in a trailer despite rumors here does not create a detrimental high center of gravity causing sway 12" maybe. The majority of your trailer weight is no higher than 5' off the ground with the exception of the structure itself and is deceiving by looking at the profile from the front. Like Me Again mine rides like it is on rails and my truck is air ride so until the bag on the outward side of the curve is filled to match the difference it leans. Partially filled water and sewage tanks will cause weight to transfer to the outside in a curve. This can also cause minor sway on rutted roads where the narrow light truck front tracking is walking the edges of the ruts and the fluid sloshes. Your trailer should be in the ruts as they fairly close to the track of semi trailers your truck especially SRW are not. Wind is the biggest reason RV's sway due to the extensive surface area along the length of the unit combined with height.

Ever talked to a tire dealer? Engineering degree? Probably not. Sales and Marketing degree? Probably not. College degree? Probably not. Buys into the literature from tire companies? Probably.