Gas vs Diesel for Towing a Fifth Wheel!!!

valhalla360 wrote:

dapperdan wrote:


The reason I say this is IF gasoline engines were superior to diesel why is it ALL the major truck manufactures are and have equipped their trucks with diesel motors for the last 50 years? You can easily get a million miles out of a diesel if maintained properly. Then there's the torque factor.

Dan

It's about fuel costs.
- Your average RV might do 2000 miles per year at 10MPG, so about 200gal or about $500/yr. If you cut fuel costs by 20%, that's a whopping $100/yr on a $10,000 engine upgrade.
- Commercial trucks frequently do 2000 miles per week at 6MPG towing much heavier loads, so about $675/wk. A 10% cost per mile fuel savings will result in around $3500/yr in fuel savings and they can easily justify the additional up front cost of a diesel. Go back 15-20yrs and the fuel savings was closer to 30-40% because it was cheaper per gallon and you got better MPG.

This is born out as you are seeing Natural Gas powered trucks because if you have easy access to it, it's cheap.

The durability of commercial diesel engines is because it's common for a big commercial truck to put in 500k+ miles. If you don't build an engine that can do that, the competition will beat you. By comparison retail vehicles are usually worn out by the time they hit 200-250k miles (30-40yrs ago it was 100-150k miles) so there is no point in building an engine that does a million miles. It just adds cost without any benefit to the buyer.

If there was demand for a "million mile" gas engine, it's not technologically hard to do but they don't do it because there isn't a demand.

Fuel savings are one thing, but when you consider a single diesel to outlast...maybe 2 or 3 gassers...Then you have $50k-$70k savings x 2 or x3 with perhaps $2k per year to keep the diesel parts fresh and not worn out.

So $50k every 5 years for a new gasser...buys a LOT of diesel, LOL.

Lots of other things to consider, but this is the one that attracted me to diesel the most. Longevity. Sure, nearly constant "something" needing done, but it's getting less and less expensive. Figure about $2k every 200k miles, with a $5k bump for a HD transmission upgrade ONCE for lifetime, depending on your truck.

Of course, you have to be okay with driving an older truck. Some people like to drive a new one every couple of years, though. To each his own :C

dapperdan wrote:


The reason I say this is IF gasoline engines were superior to diesel why is it ALL the major truck manufactures are and have equipped their trucks with diesel motors for the last 50 years? You can easily get a million miles out of a diesel if maintained properly. Then there's the torque factor.

Dan

It's about fuel costs.
- Your average RV might do 2000 miles per year at 10MPG, so about 200gal or about $500/yr. If you cut fuel costs by 20%, that's a whopping $100/yr on a $10,000 engine upgrade.
- Commercial trucks frequently do 2000 miles per week at 6MPG towing much heavier loads, so about $675/wk. A 10% cost per mile fuel savings will result in around $3500/yr in fuel savings and they can easily justify the additional up front cost of a diesel. Go back 15-20yrs and the fuel savings was closer to 30-40% because it was cheaper per gallon and you got better MPG.

This is born out as you are seeing Natural Gas powered trucks because if you have easy access to it, it's cheap.

The durability of commercial diesel engines is because it's common for a big commercial truck to put in 500k+ miles. If you don't build an engine that can do that, the competition will beat you. By comparison retail vehicles are usually worn out by the time they hit 200-250k miles (30-40yrs ago it was 100-150k miles) so there is no point in building an engine that does a million miles. It just adds cost without any benefit to the buyer.

If there was demand for a "million mile" gas engine, it's not technologically hard to do but they don't do it because there isn't a demand.

Jack Spratt wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:
Define "Better" and tell us details about the 5th wheel.

With modern engines, the gas engines are good for 200-250k miles with minimal work and diesels are drastically more complicated with computer systems and electronic controls that are prone to failures.

So modern technology makes the gas engines better
But diesels less reliable?

In some respects yes, though most of it is the gas engines got drastically more reliable.

DWeikert wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

It's a myth based on 40yr old technology that diesel will last longer.

Hmmm... If one engine needs to operate around 5000 RPM to pull a load while the other can do it at 2500 RPM, which do you think last longer?

Our V10 is running around 2000-2200rpm. The old diesel was around 1800rpm.

If the truck falls apart before either engine dies...who cares?

DiskDoctr wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:
It's a myth based on 40yr old technology that diesel will last longer. Back then carburated gas engines took a lot of maintenance and were lucky to last 100k miles. At the same time diesels were massively overbuilt mechanical and as long as you kept the filters clean, not much could go wrong. With modern engines, the gas engines are good for 200-250k miles with minimal work and diesels are drastically more complicated with computer systems and electronic controls that are prone to failures.

A good 7.3L Powerstroke is just getting warmed up at 250k ;)

Love the powerstroke, we had. Sold it at around 250k because the rest of the truck was falling apart but the motor kept chugging along.

Of course, it was a hold over from the old mechanical heavy low power output diesels and not really comparable to the modern engines.

nickthehunter wrote:

DWeikert wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

It's a myth based on 40yr old technology that diesel will last longer.

Hmmm... If one engine needs to operate around 5000 RPM to pull a load while the other can do it at 2500 RPM, which do you think last longer?

So my gasser pulls my trailer at 65 mph 2000 rpm all day long. So now which one lasts longer?

Just a guess but odds are, same terrain and load, my diesel would be turning maybe 1600 RPM. I try to keep shift points under 2000. So yes, diesel. Now let's talk about steep hills... :C

Love my diesel for towing and would never go back but hate it as a daily driver. If I drove to work in it every day I might want a gasser.

Diesel hands down every time according to those that tow seriously for a living years on end. A good average is many with LDT diesels time out in the 350k-400k miles.

A few guys and gals have used Fords V10 and GM 8.1 in one ton trucks and have been good for around 180k-200k in this type work.

Most trucks pulling rvs only do it part time.

nickthehunter wrote:

DWeikert wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

It's a myth based on 40yr old technology that diesel will last longer.

Hmmm... If one engine needs to operate around 5000 RPM to pull a load while the other can do it at 2500 RPM, which do you think last longer?

So my gasser pulls my trailer at 65 mph 2000 rpm all day long. So now which one lasts longer?

To answer your question: A diesel engine will out last a gas engine hands down. The reason I say this is IF gasoline engines were superior to diesel why is it ALL the major truck manufactures are and have equipped their trucks with diesel motors for the last 50 years? You can easily get a million miles out of a diesel if maintained properly. Then there's the torque factor.

On another note, I believe a diesel pick up will hold a better re-sale value than a gas powered pick up but that's just MY opinion.

I vote for diesel...... I LOVE my Cummins! :B "Real trucks don't have spark plugs". :B :B


Dan

DWeikert wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

It's a myth based on 40yr old technology that diesel will last longer.

Hmmm... If one engine needs to operate around 5000 RPM to pull a load while the other can do it at 2500 RPM, which do you think last longer?

So my gasser pulls my trailer at 65 mph 2000 rpm all day long. So now which one lasts longer?