Hitch pin location

Reddog1 wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

Reddog1 wrote:
I prefer not to go into any more details than I have, simply because I don't see where it adds to the discussion. I have given the weights, and while they could be plus or minus 20 lbs, I doubt it.

valhalla360 wrote:
Unfortunately, it is very relevant as the numbers you are claiming don't match logically.

The weight numbers I posted are what they are. You omitted part of my response which changed its meaning.

"Old-Biscuit, with all due respect, there are several ways to weigh a truck and trailer. I prefer not to go into any more details than I have, simply because I don't see where it adds to the discussion. I have given the weights, and while they could be plus or minus 20 lbs, I doubt it."

I am not sure what you belive they don't logically match.

valhalla360 wrote:
NADA says your trailer should be around 3300lbs empty (twin axle variant). I also looked at similar size trailers (not many 5th wheels that size) and they were all similar empty weights.

I don't know how many 1987 Alpenlite 19 5th wheels NADA has weighed to base their numbers on. I don't know what they consider is "empty".

I have one 1987 Alpenlite 19, my definition of "empty" is with appliances, propane, and equipped ready for camping minus personal gear.

valhalla360 wrote:
If the axles are rated at 2820, that means the max weight of the trailer fully loaded is 5640lbs. If you are scaling out empty at over 5000lbs, that means there is only a cargo capacity of around 600lbs which is crazy low. I would expect something on the order of 1500-2000lb cargo capacity.

I believe there are a couple of things incorrect here. The first is the how we all have been interpreting the data on the brochure sheet. I think the Gross Axle Weight under Tandem Axle of 2820 is the weight of the entire trailer with two axles, no fridge, no propane, no water neater, no furnace, no awning, no spare, no rear stabilizers, no A/C, and no Battery. Simply stated, a stripped down trailer.

Notice Gross Axle Weight under Single Axle of 2250 the weight of the entire trailer with one axle is 195 lbs less than the Tandem Axle.

My conclusion is the Alpenlite Brochure does say at some point it hat a Gross Hitch Weight (Pin Weight) of 500 lbs (19% or 17.7%). It also suggest to me the data is almost useless unless the trailer is to be used "empty. I will add, I have absolutely no confidence in NADA'S numbers.

valhalla360 wrote:
Something is clearly wrong with the numbers and if the numbers you are reporting are correct, you are way low on pin weight.

I initially thought something was wrong with the numbers. I weighed my setup two times about a week apart. Finally, a friend suggested the Alpenlite Brochure weights could be like those on truck campers, "dry weight". The decal on my TC says 1900 lbs, it actually weighs 3800 lbs (w/hydraulic jacks). I think the numbers are correct but we were interpreting them incorrectly.

valhalla360 wrote:
My best guess is the 500lb on the sticker is the pin weight when empty which would correspond to around 18%. A bit light but if they are figuring your average 1/2ton is oversized, they may figure they can get away with being slightly on the light side.

I agree with this, but only if "empty" means no fridge, no propane, no water neater, no furnace, no awning, no spare, no rear stabilizers, no A/C, and no Battery. Simply stated, a stripped down trailer.

valhalla360 wrote:
360lb pin weight on a 5000lb fully loaded may result in sway issues because it is extreme. It may not happen in all conditions but I would hate to find out taking a corner.

This is a concern, although it has not been a problem in over 900 miles. I had one experience where I had a slight say between 70 and 75 mph while passing (long story). The box on back was full of oak which probably eliminated the pin weight. This is before I weighed everything.

I will be removing the box and the steel it is mounted on. I will move the two propane cyls from the rear to the front, and mount the spare on the pin box over the pin. I am considering moving the 33 gallon water tank from just behind the axles to over the axles. There really is not much more that can be moved. I could add lead ballast in the pin box.

valhalla360 wrote:
As far as getting manufacturers to say it's OK to drive with the hitch in the slid back position, good luck. There is no benefit to them approving this regardless. If you can't do a full structural analysis, just don't. It's not just you that could be in danger if something fails at 60mph.

This is a separate issue from the pin weight. Like many things we encounter in life, things are done a certain way because they have always been done that way. I am sure there is a limit on how much weight you could put behind the axle, and I am sure each hitch is different. I am a little disappointed that the only input I get on the subject is don't do it, without any reason why.

Let's say I get my 5000 lb trailer pin weight to 500 lbs. What would be wrong with mounting a third rail in my truck bed that would allow me to put my hitch in front or behind the axle?

How you measured is very relevant as there appears to be something wrong with the numbers. Since we don't have access to your rig to measure ourselves, the only way we can figure out if there was a mistake is by understanding how you measured it. I was well aware of the full comment but it doesn't change anything, hence it was omitted.

As far as NADA, they take the manufacturers numbers. Maybe they are off by that much but I doubt it, since it would make the trailer almost overweight empty. Empty weights are simply numbers that the manufacturer can provide since they don't know how much stuff you will put in the RV. That's why they are provided.

You've clearly got it all figured out and don't want input, so you do what you want. You've been warned but clearly don't want to follow it. You might get away with it or you might not.

Edit: I just noticed you mentioned having a sway issues with this setup. That suggests bad things were going on as 5th wheels just don't sway. The oversize truck may have got you out of it that time but in similar conditions it might not.