How to understand Fifth wheels/Weights/ and my Truck

It is really easy to determine how much trailer you can tow. First load up the kids, dog, full fuel and head down to the scales. Get a total weight and each axle weight. If you do not have a 5th wheel hitch installed, add 150# to your truck weight. Some hitches weight more. My Trailer Saver air ride hitch weights 432#.

Now on your door jamb sticker you will find a GVWR (total) weight which is the most your truck can weigh, full loaded with the passengers, cargo, pin weight etc. Typically a 5er will have a pin weight between 17% up to about 25%. Smaller 5ers are typically to the lower end and larger 5ers can go well over 20% of the trailer GVWR.

While in the truck, get the owners manual and in the towing section or the spec pages, look for the GCWR for you specific cab, engine and axle ratio.

GVWR - loaded truck = maximum loaded trailer pin weight.

GCWR - loaded truck = Maximum loaded trailer weight.

Per the small print on all manufactures and their Towing limits, you are not to exceed any of the ratings, GVWR, GCWR and GAWR.

The manufacturers tow ratings are based on stripped model trucks, a 150# driver, partial fuel, no cargo, no options and no hitch. Every pound over this theoretical base weight reduces payload and towing limits by the same amount.

Speaking in a very general manner, a properly equipped 3/4 ton truck will hit the GVWR limit long before it reaches the GCWR limit and is limited to about a 32' 5er on the upper limit. You may find a few 34' 5ers that can be towed by a 3/4 ton truck.

Another issue to watch is the tire ratings on the truck. Make sure they are rated to carry the load on the rear axle. Trailer tires are another issue. Many (most) manufacturers will put on the absolute minimum tire that will barely cover the trailer weight on the axles. If you are given the choice, upgrade the tires to a higher load rating.

As for all of the 3/4 ton trucks towing 34' plus 5ers, most of them have never bother to check their weights. Then you have the group that feel there is safety in numbers. As long as more people are doing something wrong, that must make it right.

So I will not tell you that you can or cannot pull a certain sized trailer, I will explain the load ratings and how to check if you are over or under the trucks ratings. I do suggest you get the truck weighed and make your own educated decision on whether you want to tow over weight if you are over weight.

Having the right sized truck makes RVing much more fun.

Have fun with the math.

Ken

lanerd wrote:

fj12ryder wrote:
Easy answer: Weigh your truck fully loaded like you would be going down the road. Subtract that weight from your GVWR, the resulting amount is your payload. That will be the pin weight you'll be considering as your guide.

Wrong! The resulting amount will be the total payload the truck is capable of handling...which includes not only the pin weight of the 5ver but EVERYTHING else you put in or on the truck including driver, passengers, dog, equipment, hitch, or anything else.

Ron

What I was saying was fill the truck like you would be traveling: which would be with "EVERYTHING else you put in or on the truck including driver, passengers, dog, equipment, hitch, or anything else." That's why I said subtract the resulting weight from the GVWR and you'll have what you can carry.

op wrote:
Does Rear Axle Rating Trump Payload.

Yep. Exceeding the RAWR can include OEM tires wheels and rear spring pack. That ain't safe even on RV.net.

Do I have enough here to do a 30-34ft Bunk house Fifth.. Do i need to step it up. It seems more times then not these fifth wheels running down the road are with 3/4 tons???

Trucks don't carry weight determined by the trailer length or how much weight to be towed based on the trailers length. Need the trailers dry and GVWR.
There are some 34-35' trailers that may fit a 3/4 ton trucks weight capacities but other are simply too heavy.
There may be a lot of 3/4 ton trucks running down the road with large looking trailers. But you and I have no idea how much trailer gross weight or pin load their actually towing.

I'm not fond of DRW If anything I would consider stepping up into a F350 or Chevy3500 SRW if need be..
Thanks

The one ton SRW would be a better choice with 7000-7050 RAWR however if you go with a F350 SRW be careful of choosing the truck as they come in a 10000 GVWR up 11200 GVWR in the same exact configured truck.

Below is my response to the post with a question very similar to yours. It goes back to Old Biscuit's post as to respect the axle and tire ratings, GVWR not so much.

Some depends on how you truck came from the factory. Tow package? Camper package?
You can look at the numbers this way.

Front GAWR 5,200
Rear GAWR 6,200
Total GAWR 11,200#

What is the weight rating on your tires? Likely more than 3,100# each.

Now comes the part where I wash my hands! it is YOUR decision to run over the listed GVWR. The statements below are what work very well for ME, and yes feel very safe driving those roads! Steering tight and a set of Bilstien 5100 shocks, NO air bags truck has 3500 springs, part of camper package. I have OVER 1,200# of reserve axle capacity, 650# front and 634 rear. Then tires the Camper Package 265/75-16E have a capacity of 3,415# each, or 13,660#.


Fiver with Bed slide

rhagfo wrote:

PaulCW wrote:
So what is the towing experience going to be like with the 29RE silverback.
Trailer-9790 lbs Altho with options its 10400lb UVW
Hitch wt is 1615 lb as stated plus options

http://www.forestriverinc.com/FifthWheels/Silverback/default.aspx?model=silverback&page=floorplandetails&floorplanid=3199&RVType=fifthwheels

Truck has 2500 lb payload capacity and is a 05 gmc duramax 2500

You have posted earlier that your truck weighed 6,700# and had a 9,200# GVWR, if the truck weight is with it loaded as it would be towing you might come in under your GVWR.
You need to weigh again and get separate front and rear axle readings. Then you you will really know what you can carry within the GVWR. If you are more concerned with staying within axle rating and GVWR as a guide line, you should be fine.
I tow a very similar 5er with a 9,860# "dry" weight and a 12,320# GVWR. It tows great be it a narrow, twisty two lane state highway to the freeway.
I feel very comfortable towing on roads like these at the 55 mph speed limit or a bit better 60 mph or so to stay with traffic.

I feel safe and in control driving roads like this at those speeds. Yes, likely doing 60 in both pictures.
Yes the 5er is in tow in these pictures, taken by my lovely DW!

So I did add one more photo, this is TV and 5er headed to the Oregon Coast

fj12ryder wrote:
Easy answer: Weigh your truck fully loaded like you would be going down the road. Subtract that weight from your GVWR, the resulting amount is your payload. That will be the pin weight you'll be considering as your guide.

Wrong! The resulting amount will be the total payload the truck is capable of handling...which includes not only the pin weight of the 5ver but EVERYTHING else you put in or on the truck including driver, passengers, dog, equipment, hitch, or anything else.

Posted By: hbillsmith on 09/24/14 09:11pm

Sorry to make things worse but starting with your sticker payload, subtract first your family and pet load (the 800#), then subtract the weight of the fifth wheel hitch you choose, next subtract any cargo that you may throw in the truck bed. Lastly, your trailers hitch weight will increase by the weight of the battery (55#) and the propane tanks (30# x 2). So I think you are looking at (2450 - 800 - 55 - 60) 1535 for an advertised new trailers hitch weight. Reduce that a little more if the design has a front storage bin and you have some stuff you plan on hauling in there. A 3500 SRW long bed will solve your problem, otherwise look at ultra light bunk houses like Open Range Light.

hbillsmith: Your assuming the OP wants a TT. They explicitly said they wanted a 5ver.

Seabeedaddy... you are absolutely correct in your math. 450 lbs left over is not near enough as you will be putting a lot more in the truck besides what you mentioned. When considering RAWR, FAWR, GVWR, GCVWR, Payload rating and tow capacity....you will be governed by the first one that you max out....which I'm sure you'll find out will be the payload rating. None of them will "trump" any of the others.

Yes, you will see many 3/4 ton pickups pulling large 5ers that are obviously way to big...but that doesn't make it right nor that you should do it also. Safety should be your first concern.

If you really want that large 5ver, you're best bet would be a 3500/350 diesel.

Good luck

Ron

Seabeedaddy wrote:
Well. I guess I'm confused. If Just going by sticker on door and it says 2450 lbs payload. And I have a 2000lbs pin. That's just pin. That only leaves me 450lbs.

That's correct......based on those numbers.

As suggested go weigh truck 'camp ready' (you, passengers, stuff in cab).
That weigh ticket will have front axle, rear axle and total
Subtract total (plus 250# for 5vr hitch) from GVWR....that will be how much weight before exceeding GVWR.
Then check rear axle weight against RAWR. That will be how much weight before exceeding RAWR.
Then check rear tire max load rating. How much before exceeding rear tire load rating.

Your truck probably has a GVWR of 9300# or 9500#.

For me personally......I'll go over truck GVWR as long as I don't exceed rear axle/rear tire ratings.

Sorry to make things worse but starting with your sticker payload, subtract first your family and pet load (the 800#), then subtract the weight of the fifth wheel hitch you choose (Andersen Ultimate is the lightest of these), next subtract any cargo that you may throw in the truck bed. Lastly, your 5er's hitch weight will increase by the weight of the battery (55#) and the propane tanks (30# x 2). So I think you are looking at (2450 - 800 - 55 - 60) 1535 for an advertised new 5er hitch weight. Reduce that a little more if the design has a front storage bin and you have some stuff you plan on hauling in there. A 3500 SRW long bed will solve your problem, otherwise look at ultra light bunk houses like Open Range Light bunk house that advertises a 1405 dry hitch weight OpenRangeLight LF314BHS

Well. I guess I'm confused. If Just going by sticker on door and it says 2450 lbs payload. And I have a 2000lbs pin. That's just pin. That only leaves me 450lbs.

Easy answer: Weigh your truck fully loaded like you would be going down the road. Subtract that weight from your GVWR, the resulting amount is your payload. That will be the pin weight you'll be considering as your guide. Pin weight usually is 20% of total weight of a 5th wheel. 10,000 lb. fifth wheel usually has a pin weight around 2,000 lbs.

Rear Axle Rating trumps nothing, but some people use it as an ultimate amount. Some pay attention to GVWR, some don't. Lots of opinions.

I would think you could find a 30-34 ft. bunkhouse that will work with your truck without too much trouble.