Question on Pin Weight and Toy Haulers

720Deere wrote:

miboje wrote:

Good point, and it may not necessarily be a downer. I went on the net and found a dealer with one on the lot with all the options I would order, except one. I would not order the installed generator. They are listing the pin weight at over 200 lbs. less than stated on Heartland's web site. Of course, the trailer is a little heavier with those options, but not a lot.
That's good advice; if it comes down to it, we could always ask a dealer to verify things for us.

Unfortunately dealer ads are mostly written by salesmen and from my experience nobody knows less facts about an RV than an RV salesman! The Onan 5500 generator weighs 279 lbs and that is 95% pin weight because of its location. Judging from my experience, I believe that Keystone's published weights do not include options such as the generator. The advertised pin weight on my Fuzion 315 was 3015 lbs and it scaled just over 3400 lbs on the trip home from the dealer before we put anything inside. Our "shipping weight" was also several hundred pounds more than advertised.

Hmmm...then I guess there is really no way for me to determine what I need to know ahead of time outside of having the dealer take it to a weigh station.

miboje wrote:

Good point, and it may not necessarily be a downer. I went on the net and found a dealer with one on the lot with all the options I would order, except one. I would not order the installed generator. They are listing the pin weight at over 200 lbs. less than stated on Heartland's web site. Of course, the trailer is a little heavier with those options, but not a lot.
That's good advice; if it comes down to it, we could always ask a dealer to verify things for us.

Unfortunately dealer ads are mostly written by salesmen and from my experience nobody knows less facts about an RV than an RV salesman! The Onan 5500 generator weighs 279 lbs and that is 95% pin weight because of its location. Judging from my experience, I believe that Keystone's published weights do not include options such as the generator. The advertised pin weight on my Fuzion 315 was 3015 lbs and it scaled just over 3400 lbs on the trip home from the dealer before we put anything inside. Our "shipping weight" was also several hundred pounds more than advertised.

Macman83 wrote:
Just my 2 cents. I speak from experience when I tell you that your F350 SRW will pull a big trailer. Mine was a 2000 F350 SRW 7.3 diesel crewcab and I had upgraded it to around 350HP with a chip and exhaust. I also added firestone airbags to the rear axle and high quality brakes. The GCVWR on my truck was listed as 20000,(which BTW is the same for a DRW) and at the scale the truck weighed 7200lbs with 1/2 tank of gas and me. I calculated that I could put 3900 pounds on the hitch and still be within my limit as the firestone tires have a weight rating of 3450 each,(6900lbs for the axle). So our trailer was purchased and the pin weight empty was 3200. So I knew that I was going to be running close to my weight limits for the axle and I was over the GCVWR of the truck, but I was going to be driving on the interstates, in the flat lands of the midwest and felt that I would be OK if I was careful, kept the speed down and didn't push the rig to hard.

I pulled the trailer on 3 trips from 60 miles one way to 300 miles one way. The last and longest trip was the 300 miles through Oklahoma on an average windy (15-20MPH) day for Oklahoma. After 2 1/2 hours of driving, I was worn out and had to stop. The truck pulled the trailer ok, and the tire temps and engine gauges were fine, no overloaded condition, not working the engine to hard. The problem was that the trailer was pushing the SRW around just enough that I had to keep my concentration on the road without a break. Speed was 60-65 on straight flat 4 lane, but the truck still wanted to squirm around in the wind. It was a lesson well learned, because friends who should know said that with the mods that I had done, the truck should be fine.

So, in the end, we are fortunate that we can afford to replace the 2000 F350 with a 2010 F450. We got a really good deal on the new/used truck, and I can assure you that it has the numbers to pull my 16K 5er. On the first trip with it, we logged 540 miles, and were calm and relaxed even in some hills in Arkansas. The big dually handled the trailer beautifully.

OK, so didn't realize that I was rambling on here... Point is, don't bite off more than you are willing to chew. If you are worried that your rig, whatever it may be, will be too much for you to handle, then it probably will be. Cut back to your comfortable weight/length/configuration and I can guarantee you that you will enjoy camping much more, and will probably do it more often.

And please everyone...don't waste your time telling me that I was crazy to think that my old truck could do the job. I already know that, and have since solved that problem. I learned an important lesson, and hope that this helps the OP in some way.

This is probably the best and most civil answer ive seen to a towing question. Cant count the number of times ive had my head bitten off and then arguing starts between different posters because of a towing question ive asked. It could pull it but it wont be fun with the wind. Bravo sir

miboje wrote:
Take it easy on me - I am a female still learning about this stuff, so I apologize if this is a loaded or dumb question!

Our truck, a 2003 F-350 PSD, allows for 2100 lbs. of pin weight. The toy haulers we are considering have a pin weight of 2400 lbs.+/-. How much weight do we need to put in the garage to lighten the toy hauler's pin weight to an acceptable weight? Or is this going to be running too close to our limit?

Thank you for your help.

Bobbi

The weight transfer off the pin from weight placed behind the axle group would be:

Distance from center of gravity of the cargo to the center line of the trailer axle group / distance from the center of the axle group to the pin x the weight of the cargo.

miboje wrote:
They are listing the pin weight at over 200 lbs. less than stated on Heartland's web site. Of course, the trailer is a little heavier with those options, but not a lot.

Yes because I am sure that is an accurate weight...dealers NEVER lie to make a sale. 200lbs less WITH a generator...makes no sense to me.

lincster wrote:
Don't mean to be a downer, but I am not believing those weight numbers from Heartland.

I weighed my trailer on a CAT scale the day I brought it home.
9000lbs on the axles and 2600lbs on the pin, total of 11,600 lbs and that was a totally empty trailer!!!!!

That Heartland has 3 slides to it and slides are heavy.
I would ask the dealer if they will take it to a scale before I bought it, if you are concerned with weights.

Good point, and it may not necessarily be a downer. I went on the net and found a dealer with one on the lot with all the options I would order, except one. I would not order the installed generator. They are listing the pin weight at over 200 lbs. less than stated on Heartland's web site. Of course, the trailer is a little heavier with those options, but not a lot.
That's good advice; if it comes down to it, we could always ask a dealer to verify things for us.

Don't mean to be a downer, but I am not believing those weight numbers from Heartland.

I weighed my trailer on a CAT scale the day I brought it home.
9000lbs on the axles and 2600lbs on the pin, total of 11,600 lbs and that was a totally empty trailer!!!!!

That Heartland has 3 slides to it and slides are heavy.
I would ask the dealer if they will take it to a scale before I bought it, if you are concerned with weights.

Macman83 wrote:
Point is, don't bite off more than you are willing to chew. If you are worried that your rig, whatever it may be, will be too much for you to handle, then it probably will be. Cut back to your comfortable weight/length/configuration and I can guarantee you that you will enjoy camping much more, and will probably do it more often.

Thank you. Your input is very helpful, and we absolutely agree. It's stories such as yours that help confirm things for prospective buyers like us, so thank you for sharing it.

And just to be clear to everyone - I don't think I conveyed any anger or demonstrated any disagreement towards anyone anywhere regarding whether or not they thought our truck can handle this particular RV. It is what it is - I was simply asking whether or not pin weight could be adjusted with a load in the garage.

I agree that we should never bite off more than we think the truck can handle. I don't want us to find ourselves sitting along a road with a broken down truck - we need that truck to haul firewood. Problem is, we're right at the borderline with all the numbers if we go with this particular model - which is the *only* toy hauler that we are currently considering. If anyone wants to see what those numbers are, check here(scroll down a bit): Heartland Torque TQ 325
I definitely don't want to buy this toy hauler only to realize afterwards that we really shouldn't have. I just don't know what to do because it's so close to what the truck can handle according to specs.

I know that people pull over their truck's specs all the time, and we don't hear about the DOT, at least not here in PA, cracking down on iffy looking setups. Not yet, anyhow. By they way, there is someone on the rv-dreams.com forum that is hauling a big ole DRV with an older Dodge 2500 DRW! There's just no way we'd even consider doing something like that.

Macman83 wrote:
because friends who should know said that with the mods that I had done, the truck should be fine.

This is why I educate my friends on numbers/etc. Sometimes friends are like salesman, they tell you what you want to hear.

They don't like what I have to say sometimes, but I give them the straight truth.

A big toyhauler needs a big truck.
Any toyhauler in the 35-45' range needs a 1 ton dually minimum.
F450 like you bought, at least the 2008-2010 models, is the optimum truck for towing big trailers.

Just my 2 cents. I speak from experience when I tell you that your F350 SRW will pull a big trailer. Mine was a 2000 F350 SRW 7.3 diesel crewcab and I had upgraded it to around 350HP with a chip and exhaust. I also added firestone airbags to the rear axle and high quality brakes. The GCVWR on my truck was listed as 20000,(which BTW is the same for a DRW) and at the scale the truck weighed 7200lbs with 1/2 tank of gas and me. I calculated that I could put 3900 pounds on the hitch and still be within my limit as the firestone tires have a weight rating of 3450 each,(6900lbs for the axle). So our trailer was purchased and the pin weight empty was 3200. So I knew that I was going to be running close to my weight limits for the axle and I was over the GCVWR of the truck, but I was going to be driving on the interstates, in the flat lands of the midwest and felt that I would be OK if I was careful, kept the speed down and didn't push the rig to hard.

I pulled the trailer on 3 trips from 60 miles one way to 300 miles one way. The last and longest trip was the 300 miles through Oklahoma on an average windy (15-20MPH) day for Oklahoma. After 2 1/2 hours of driving, I was worn out and had to stop. The truck pulled the trailer ok, and the tire temps and engine gauges were fine, no overloaded condition, not working the engine to hard. The problem was that the trailer was pushing the SRW around just enough that I had to keep my concentration on the road without a break. Speed was 60-65 on straight flat 4 lane, but the truck still wanted to squirm around in the wind. It was a lesson well learned, because friends who should know said that with the mods that I had done, the truck should be fine.

So, in the end, we are fortunate that we can afford to replace the 2000 F350 with a 2010 F450. We got a really good deal on the new/used truck, and I can assure you that it has the numbers to pull my 16K 5er. On the first trip with it, we logged 540 miles, and were calm and relaxed even in some hills in Arkansas. The big dually handled the trailer beautifully.

OK, so didn't realize that I was rambling on here... Point is, don't bite off more than you are willing to chew. If you are worried that your rig, whatever it may be, will be too much for you to handle, then it probably will be. Cut back to your comfortable weight/length/configuration and I can guarantee you that you will enjoy camping much more, and will probably do it more often.

And please everyone...don't waste your time telling me that I was crazy to think that my old truck could do the job. I already know that, and have since solved that problem. I learned an important lesson, and hope that this helps the OP in some way.