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flyfishing48's avatar
flyfishing48
Explorer
Nov 03, 2014

Reflection vs Solitude

We are looking at the Grand Design Reflection and Soltude fifth wheels. The Reflection is the 337rls and the Solitude is the 320X.
There is some $15k difference in the MSRP for the two. The Solitude being the greater of course. The Solitude is 1'4" shorter in length and 7" higher ( 2nd a/c ) but 1,000 lbs heaver. Looking at all of the information I can dig up on line and just an hour looking at the units on a lot, I can't see much difference between the two. Certainly not $15,000 worth.
The literature on line is not a lot of help. They seem to say the same thing about the construction, but with different terms.
I would love to hear from someone who has been to the factory and saw how they are built. For 1,000 lbs and $15,000 there must be something different in the components.
The Solitude definitely looks like the higher end unit, but I would like to know how come.
Thanks in advance for any help.

29 Replies

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  • Veebyes's avatar
    Veebyes
    Explorer II
    Nov 08, 2014
    Don't let a used or an orphan put you off. As long as you are not one of those who has to go running off to the dealer to fix every little thing an orphan like the Alpenlite or another quality builder unit that has been preowned can be had for the price of a new mid market unit that you still have to deal with once the various warrantees expire.

    These things are a collection of third party parts assembled by the builder. Not much more than the house frame & what covers it is actually made by the builder. Windows & all the components inside come from somewhere else.

    Chances are that when something goes wrong you ae going to be miles from your dealer anyway.
  • Justaguy's avatar
    Justaguy
    Explorer
    Nov 08, 2014
    Veebyes wrote:
    A quick comparisson of the Solitude 320X & my Alpenlite 34RLR revealed 2 things that stopped me in my tracks. Both the Solitude & my Alpenlite have virtually the same dry weights.

    The Solitude rides on 2 6000# axels. My Alpenlite has 7000# axels & 8000# brakes.

    The Solitude has only a 54gal fresh water tank. WHERE are you going with that? The Alpenlite has a 100gal fresh water tank.

    The Solitude may be good enough for short weekend jaunts to the local CG but it sure is not built & set up for the rigours of long distance traveling & anything more than a couple days without water access.

    Looks pretty but falls down on those 2 important but unseen items putting it solidly in the midmarket group.

    JMHO.


    True, but Western RV (Great Manufacturer of Alpinlite) went out of business. I am trying to find a current build that competes with this GD product both in quality and product support.
  • Veebyes's avatar
    Veebyes
    Explorer II
    Nov 08, 2014
    A quick comparisson of the Solitude 320X & my Alpenlite 34RLR revealed 2 things that stopped me in my tracks. Both the Solitude & my Alpenlite have virtually the same dry weights.

    The Solitude rides on 2 6000# axels. My Alpenlite has 7000# axels & 8000# brakes.

    The Solitude has only a 54gal fresh water tank. WHERE are you going with that? The Alpenlite has a 100gal fresh water tank.

    The Solitude may be good enough for short weekend jaunts to the local CG but it sure is not built & set up for the rigours of long distance traveling & anything more than a couple days without water access.

    Looks pretty but falls down on those 2 important but unseen items putting it solidly in the midmarket group.

    JMHO.
  • dpam's avatar
    dpam
    Explorer
    Nov 08, 2014
    Today I was at a dealer that sells both of these trailers. I had to check what type of tires they came with and noticed they were Westlake Super St tires. These tires are manufactured in China. Because of this companies past tire issues my recommendation would be to negotiate replacing the tires with better quality tire.
    Just my 2 cents worth.
  • glazier's avatar
    glazier
    Explorer II
    Nov 07, 2014
    dezolen wrote:
    Mentioned Grand Design units to 2 friends after we saw them at an RV dealer when they first came out. Both were diehard Rockwood owners. First friend bought a Reflection as soon as he went to see one. The second person bought a truely 1/2 ton towable Reflection while he was vacationing in California which was just delivered as new model. I should be in sales or at least get some commission for the sales but the coaches speak for themselves.


    We done something like that, saw the first Reflection units when they hit the dealers floor. I was, and still am impressed with the Reflection line. We ordered the first 337 our dealer sold, took about 3 weeks for it to be delivered.
  • dezolen's avatar
    dezolen
    Explorer
    Nov 07, 2014
    Mentioned Grand Design units to 2 friends after we saw them at an RV dealer when they first came out. Both were diehard Rockwood owners. First friend bought a Reflection as soon as he went to see one. The second person bought a truely 1/2 ton towable Reflection while he was vacationing in California which was just delivered as new model. I should be in sales or at least get some commission for the sales but the coaches speak for themselves.
  • goducks10's avatar
    goducks10
    Explorer
    Nov 06, 2014
    greende wrote:
    tsetsaf wrote:
    A little off topic but I got a real chuckle the other day walking through the campground. Two identical Reflections setup across the aisle from one another. Similar background foliage, lawn chairs and everything. I just found it interesting and funny...


    Maybe it was just a "Reflection"...:W. Sorry, I couldn't resist.



    That's good.:)
  • greende's avatar
    greende
    Explorer II
    Nov 06, 2014
    tsetsaf wrote:
    A little off topic but I got a real chuckle the other day walking through the campground. Two identical Reflections setup across the aisle from one another. Similar background foliage, lawn chairs and everything. I just found it interesting and funny...


    Maybe it was just a "Reflection"...:W. Sorry, I couldn't resist.
  • tsetsaf's avatar
    tsetsaf
    Explorer III
    Nov 06, 2014
    A little off topic but I got a real chuckle the other day walking through the campground. Two identical Reflections setup across the aisle from one another. Similar background foliage, lawn chairs and everything. I just found it interesting and funny...
  • Bamaman11's avatar
    Bamaman11
    Explorer
    Nov 06, 2014
    You're in Michigan, and the Grand Design factory's just over the Michigan/Indiana state line. Call Customer Service for an appointment for a factory tour.

    You can see the difference in the trailers visually.

    We're just fine with our Reflection 323BHS. It's just perfect for our use--at a fair price for what we have. They're not selling 150+ units per month for no reason.

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vs Solitude","id":"message:1497658","revisionNum":1,"repliesCount":29,"author":{"__ref":"User:user:2783"},"depth":0,"hasGivenKudo":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:FifthWheelforum-board"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:1497658"},"readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:1497658"},"body":"We are looking at the Grand Design Reflection and Soltude fifth wheels. The Reflection is the 337rls and the Solitude is the 320X.
There is some $15k difference in the MSRP for the two. The Solitude being the greater of course. The Solitude is 1'4\" shorter in length and 7\" higher ( 2nd a/c ) but 1,000 lbs heaver. Looking at all of the information I can dig up on line and just an hour looking at the units on a lot, I can't see much difference between the two. Certainly not $15,000 worth.
The literature on line is not a lot of help. They seem to say the same thing about the construction, but with different terms.
I would love to hear from someone who has been to the factory and saw how they are built. For 1,000 lbs and $15,000 there must be something different in the components.
The Solitude definitely looks like the higher end unit, but I would like to know how come.
Thanks in advance for any help.","body@stringLength":"940","rawBody":"We are looking at the Grand Design Reflection and Soltude fifth wheels. The Reflection is the 337rls and the Solitude is the 320X.
There is some $15k difference in the MSRP for the two. The Solitude being the greater of course. The Solitude is 1'4\" shorter in length and 7\" higher ( 2nd a/c ) but 1,000 lbs heaver. Looking at all of the information I can dig up on line and just an hour looking at the units on a lot, I can't see much difference between the two. Certainly not $15,000 worth.
The literature on line is not a lot of help. They seem to say the same thing about the construction, but with different terms.
I would love to hear from someone who has been to the factory and saw how they are built. For 1,000 lbs and $15,000 there must be something different in the components.
The Solitude definitely looks like the higher end unit, but I would like to know how come.
Thanks in advance for any help.","kudosSumWeight":0,"postTime":"2014-11-02T18:52:37.000-08:00","images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"tags":{"__typename":"TagConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"timeToRead":1,"currentRevision":{"__ref":"Revision:revision:1497658_1"},"latestVersion":null,"metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":22770},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","canonicalUrl":null,"seoTitle":null,"seoDescription":null,"isEscalated":null,"placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"messagePolicies":{"__typename":"MessagePolicies","canModerateSpamMessage":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":{"__typename":"FailureReason","message":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","key":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","args":[]}}},"archivalData":null,"searchSnippet":"We are looking at the Grand Design Reflection and Soltude fifth wheels. The Reflection is the 337rls and the Solitude is the 320X. There is some $15k difference in the MSRP for the two. The 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{\n /* faking it; should be 33.33333333% */\n width: 25%;\n }\n\n .col-lg-8 {\n /* faking it; should be 66.66666667% */\n width: 75%;\n }\n\n .col-lg-10 {\n width: 83.33333333%;\n }\n\n .col-lg-12 {\n width: 100%;\n }\n}\n\n.pull-left {\n float: left;\n width: 100%;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 767px) {\n float: none;\n width: auto;\n }\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n float: left;\n }\n}\n\n.pad-bottom-20 {\n padding-bottom: $theme-space-base;\n}\n\n.pad-top-20 {\n padding-top: $theme-space-base;\n}\n\n.pad-top-30 {\n padding-top: calc($bootstrap-padding * 2);\n}\n\n.pad-top-40 {\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n padding-top: $theme-space-large;\n }\n}\n\n.margin-left-20 {\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n margin-left: $theme-space-base;\n }\n}\n\n.margin-top-20 {\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n margin-top: $theme-space-base;\n }\n}\n\n.text-center {\n text-align: center;\n}\n\n.text-right {\n text-align: right;\n}\n\n.text-smaller,\n.text-small {\n font-size: $theme-type-size-xsmall;\n}\n\n.text-large {\n font-size: $theme-type-size-xlarge;\n}\n\n.footer-contact {\n p {\n display: flex;\n flex-direction: row;\n justify-content: center;\n align-items: center;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n display: block;\n }\n\n .text-small {\n @media screen and (max-width: 991px) {\n font-size: $theme-type-size-base;\n }\n }\n }\n\n .icon-gs-app {\n margin-right: $theme-space-base;\n max-width: 38px;\n padding-right: 2px;\n padding-top: 2px;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n margin-left: 140px;\n margin-right: 0;\n }\n }\n\n .gsi-icon-phone {\n margin-bottom: -2px;\n margin-right: $theme-space-small;\n max-height: 20px;\n width: 20px;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n margin-right: 0;\n }\n }\n}\n\n.footer-link {\n a,\n button {\n color: $goodsam-gray-footer;\n padding: 0 12px 0 $theme-space-small;\n }\n\n li:last-child a {\n padding-right: 0;\n }\n}\n\n.footer-top-links {\n padding-left: 0;\n list-style: none;\n display: flex;\n flex-direction: row;\n justify-content: center;\n align-items: center;\n flex-wrap: wrap;\n margin-bottom: $theme-space-small;\n font-size: 16px;\n\n @media screen and (max-width: 480px) {\n flex-direction: column;\n }\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n display: block;\n }\n\n li {\n margin-bottom: $theme-space-base;\n padding: 0 $theme-space-base;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n padding: 0;\n }\n }\n}\n\n.footer-top {\n border-bottom: 2px solid $goodsam-gray-400;\n display: block;\n margin: auto;\n padding-top: $theme-space-small;\n text-align: center;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n text-align: left;\n }\n\n .footer-logo {\n max-height: 60px;\n max-width: 140px;\n padding: $theme-space-small;\n padding-left: 0;\n padding-top: 0;\n }\n\n .footer-list {\n display: flex;\n justify-content: center;\n align-items: center;\n list-style: none;\n margin-bottom: 0;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n display: block;\n float: right;\n }\n\n li {\n display: inline-block;\n padding: $theme-space-small $theme-space-xsmall;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n border-right: 1px solid $goodsam-gray-700;\n float: left;\n padding: 0;\n\n &:last-child {\n border-right: 0;\n }\n }\n\n a,\n button {\n font-size: $theme-type-size-xsmall;\n text-transform: uppercase;\n\n @media screen and (max-width: 768px) {\n display: block;\n padding: $theme-space-small;\n }\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n font-size: $theme-type-size-small;\n }\n }\n\n .dropup {\n background-clip: padding-box;\n border: none;\n font-size: $theme-type-size-small;\n list-style: none;\n padding-left: 5px;\n position: relative;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n float: left;\n }\n\n &:hover {\n .dropdown-menu {\n display: block;\n }\n }\n }\n\n .footer-dropup-toggle {\n background: none;\n border: 0;\n padding: 0;\n\n .fa-angle-up {\n /* @include li-icon ($fa-var-angle-up, $pseudo: before, $size: $theme-type-size-base, $color: $goodsam-gray-footer);\n padding-left: $theme-space-xsmall;\n padding-right: $theme-space-xsmall; */\n }\n }\n\n .dropdown-menu {\n background-color: #fff;\n border-radius: 4px;\n bottom: 100%;\n margin: 2px 0 0;\n min-width: 160px;\n padding: $theme-space-xsmall 0;\n position: absolute;\n right: 0;\n\n li {\n border-right: 0;\n float: none;\n text-align: left;\n\n @media screen and (max-width: 768px) {\n display: block;\n }\n\n a {\n color: $goodsam-gray;\n display: block;\n text-transform: none;\n\n &:hover {\n outline: 5px auto -webkit-focus-ring-color;\n outline-offset: -2px;\n }\n }\n }\n }\n }\n }\n}\n\n.footer-terms {\n display: flex;\n flex-direction: column;\n justify-content: center;\n align-items: center;\n padding: $theme-space-small 0;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n display: block;\n padding: 0;\n }\n\n > .row {\n padding-bottom: $theme-space-small;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n padding-bottom: $theme-space-base;\n }\n\n &.footer-terms-order-1 {\n order: 1;\n }\n\n &.footer-terms-order-2 {\n order: 2;\n }\n }\n}\n\n.footer-bottom {\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n padding-top: $theme-space-small;\n }\n\n .footer-bottom-list-center {\n display: flex;\n flex-direction: row;\n justify-content: center;\n align-items: center;\n flex-wrap: wrap;\n float: none;\n margin: 0 auto;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n display: block;\n }\n\n li {\n display: inline;\n padding: 0 $theme-space-base;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n border-right: 1px solid $goodsam-gray-700;\n padding: 0;\n\n &:first-child a {\n padding-left: 0;\n }\n\n &:last-child {\n border-right: 0;\n\n a {\n padding-right: 0;\n }\n }\n }\n\n a {\n display: inline-block;\n font-size: $theme-type-size-small;\n padding: $theme-space-small;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n display: inline;\n font-size: $theme-type-size-xsmall;\n padding: 0 12px 0 $theme-space-small;\n }\n }\n }\n }\n}\n\n.copyright {\n color: $goodsam-gray-footer;\n font-size: $theme-type-size-base;\n margin-bottom: 0;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n margin-bottom: $theme-space-small;\n }\n}\n\n#gsFooterSocial,\n.gsFooterSocial {\n background: $goodsam-gray-200;\n padding: 0 calc($theme-space-small + $theme-space-xsmall);\n .footerSocialItems,\n #footerSocialItems {\n text-align: center;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 767px) {\n text-align: left;\n }\n }\n\n .footerSocialItems ul,\n #footerSocialItems ul {\n list-style-type: none;\n margin: auto;\n padding-left: 0;\n\n li {\n display: inline;\n margin: 0 $theme-space-small;\n }\n }\n}\n","texts":{"custom.footer.col01.text.01":"Home","custom.footer.col01.url.01":"https://www.goodsam.com/","custom.footer.col01.text.02":"About Us","custom.footer.col01.url.02":"https://www.goodsam.com/about/","custom.footer.col01.text.03":"Contact Us","custom.footer.col01.url.03":"https://www.goodsam.com/contact","custom.footer.col01.text.04":"FAQ","custom.footer.col01.url.04":"https://www.goodsam.com/faq/","custom.footer.col01.text.05":"Site Map","custom.footer.col01.url.05":"https://www.goodsam.com/site-map.aspx","custom.footer.col02.text.01":"Code of Conduct","custom.footer.col02.url.01":"https://www.goodsam.com/code-of-conduct.aspx","custom.footer.col02.text.02":"Affiliate Program","custom.footer.col02.url.02":"https://www.goodsam.com/affiliate/","custom.footer.col02.text.03":"Become a Good Sam Campground","custom.footer.col02.url.03":"https://www.goodsamnetwork.com/","custom.footer.col02.text.04":"Good Sam Rewards Visa","custom.footer.col02.url.04":"https://www.goodsam.com/creditcard/","custom.footer.col02.text.05":"About Marcus Lemonis","custom.footer.col02.url.05":"https://www.goodsam.com/about-marcus-lemonis/","custom.footer.col03.text.01":"RV Sales","custom.footer.col03.url.01":"https://rv.campingworld.com/","custom.footer.col03.text.02":"RV Gear","custom.footer.col03.url.02":"https://www.campingworld.com/shop/","custom.footer.col03.text.03":"RV Maintenance & Repair","custom.footer.col03.url.03":"https://rv.campingworld.com/service/","custom.footer.col03.text.04":"Good Sam Membership & Services","custom.footer.col03.url.04":"https://www.goodsam.com/","custom.footer.col03.text.05":"Campground Solutions","custom.footer.col03.url.05":"https://campgroundsolutions.goodsam.com/","custom.footer.col04.text.01":"Helpful Articles and Tips","custom.footer.col04.url.01":"https://www.goodsam.com/article","custom.footer.col05.text.01":"Good Sam Apps","custom.footer.col05.url.01":"https://www.goodsam.com/rv-camping-apps/","custom.footer.col05.text.02":"Take Good Sam apps on your next RV Trip!","custom.footer.col05.url.02":"https://www.goodsam.com/rv-camping-apps/","custom.footer.col06.text.01":"Customer Service Phone Number:","custom.footer.col06.phone.number":"866-205-7451","custom.footer.col06.text.02":"Club contact number 866-205-7451","custom.footer.col06.url.02":"tel:866-205-7451","custom.footer.row01.logo.text":"Good Sam Home","custom.footer.row01.text.01":"Blog","custom.footer.row01.url.01":"http://blog.goodsam.com/","custom.footer.row01.text.02":"Careers","custom.footer.row01.url.02":"https://www.campingworldcareers.com/","custom.footer.row01.text.03":"Contact Us","custom.footer.row01.text.toggle":"Click to expand","custom.footer.row01.text.04":"Good Sam","custom.footer.row01.url.04":"https://www.goodsam.com/contact/","custom.footer.row01.text.05":"Camping World","custom.footer.row01.url.05":"https://www.campingworld.com/contact/","custom.footer.row01.text.06":"RV Sales","custom.footer.row01.url.06":"https://rv.campingworld.com/contact","custom.footer.row02.text.01":"Privacy Policy","custom.footer.row02.url.01":"https://www.goodsam.com/privacy-policy.aspx","custom.footer.row02.text.02":"California Privacy Rights","custom.footer.row02.url.02":"https://www.goodsam.com/privacy-policy.aspx#calinevada","custom.footer.row02.text.03":"Investor Relations","custom.footer.row02.url.03":"http://investor.campingworld.com","custom.footer.row02.text.04":"Terms of Use","custom.footer.row02.url.04":"https://www.goodsam.com/terms.aspx","custom.footer.row02.text.05":"Accessibility Commitment","custom.footer.row02.url.05":"https://www.goodsam.com/accessibility-commitment.aspx","custom.footer.row02.text.06":"Team Member Assistance","custom.footer.row02.url.06":"https://www.goodsam.com/helping-hand","custom.footer.social.facebook.text":"Facebook","custom.footer.social.facebook.url":"https://www.facebook.com/GoodSam","custom.footer.social.twitter.text":"Twitter","custom.footer.social.twitter.url":"https://twitter.com/GoodSam","custom.footer.social.youtube.text":"YouTube","custom.footer.social.youtube.url":"https://www.youtube.com/user/goodsamrvers","custom.footer.social.instagram.text":"Instagram","custom.footer.social.instagram.url":"https://www.instagram.com/goodsam/?hl=en","custom.footer.social.pinterest.text":"Pinterest","custom.footer.social.pinterest.url":"https://www.pinterest.com/goodsam/","custom-community-footer-copyright.text":"© {0} Good Sam Enterprises, LLC. All rights reserved."},"defaults":{"config":{"applicablePages":[],"description":"","fetchedContent":null,"__typename":"ComponentConfiguration"},"props":[],"__typename":"ComponentProperties"},"components":[{"id":"custom.widget.CustomFooter","form":null,"config":null,"props":[],"__typename":"Component"}],"grouping":"CUSTOM","__typename":"ComponentTemplate"},"properties":{"config":{"applicablePages":[],"description":"","fetchedContent":null,"__typename":"ComponentConfiguration"},"props":[],"__typename":"ComponentProperties"},"form":null,"__typename":"Component","localOverride":false},"globalCss":{"css":".custom_widget_CustomFooter_footer-wrapper_hp49n_21 {\n background: #474442;\n\n a {\n color: #dfdfdf;\n font-weight: 100;\n\n &:focus,\n &:hover {\n color: #dfdfdf;\n }\n }\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_sr-only_hp49n_34 {\n position: absolute;\n width: 0.0625rem;\n height: 0.0625rem;\n margin: -0.0625rem;\n padding: 0;\n overflow: hidden;\n clip: rect(0, 0, 0, 0);\n border: 0;\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_footer_hp49n_21 {\n line-height: 1.25rem;\n /* margin-left: auto;\n\tmargin-right: auto;\n\tpadding-left: $bootstrap-padding;\n\tpadding-right: $bootstrap-padding; */\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_container_hp49n_52 {\n margin-left: auto;\n margin-right: auto;\n max-width: 73.125rem;\n padding-left: 0.9375rem;\n padding-right: 0.9375rem;\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_row_hp49n_60 {\n /* HOTFIX - PSDS-32115 - Remove negative margins to fix mobile display */\n\n &::after {\n clear: both;\n }\n\n &::after,\n &::before {\n content: ' ';\n display: table;\n }\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col_hp49n_74 {\n float: left;\n min-height: 0.0625rem;\n padding-left: 0.9375rem;\n padding-right: 0.9375rem;\n position: relative;\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-xs-10_hp49n_82,\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-sm-10_hp49n_83 {\n width: 83.33333333%;\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-xs-12_hp49n_87,\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-sm-4_hp49n_88,\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-sm-12_hp49n_89,\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-md-2_hp49n_90,\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-md-8_hp49n_91,\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-md-10_hp49n_92,\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-md-12_hp49n_93,\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-lg-2_hp49n_94,\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-lg-8_hp49n_95,\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-lg-12_hp49n_96 {\n width: 100%;\n}\n@media screen and (min-width: 767px) {\n .custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-md-2_hp49n_90 {\n width: 16.66666667%;\n }\n\n .custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-md-8_hp49n_91 {\n width: 66.66666667%;\n }\n\n .custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-md-10_hp49n_92 {\n width: 83.33333333%;\n }\n\n .custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-md-12_hp49n_93 {\n width: 100%;\n }\n}\n@media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n .custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-lg-2_hp49n_94 {\n width: 16.66666667%;\n }\n\n .custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-lg-4_hp49n_123 {\n /* faking it; should be 33.33333333% */\n width: 25%;\n }\n\n .custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-lg-8_hp49n_95 {\n /* faking it; should be 66.66666667% */\n width: 75%;\n }\n\n .custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-lg-10_hp49n_133 {\n width: 83.33333333%;\n }\n\n .custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-lg-12_hp49n_96 {\n width: 100%;\n }\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_pull-left_hp49n_142 {\n float: left;\n width: 100%;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 767px) {\n float: none;\n width: auto;\n }\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n float: left;\n }\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_pad-bottom-20_hp49n_156 {\n padding-bottom: 1.25rem;\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_pad-top-20_hp49n_160 {\n padding-top: 1.25rem;\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_pad-top-30_hp49n_164 {\n padding-top: calc(0.9375rem * 2);\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_pad-top-40_hp49n_168 {\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n padding-top: 2.5rem;\n }\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_margin-left-20_hp49n_174 {\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n margin-left: 1.25rem;\n }\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_margin-top-20_hp49n_180 {\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n margin-top: 1.25rem;\n }\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_text-center_hp49n_186 {\n text-align: center;\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_text-right_hp49n_190 {\n text-align: right;\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_text-smaller_hp49n_194,\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_text-small_hp49n_194 {\n font-size: 0.75rem;\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_text-large_hp49n_199 {\n font-size: 1.25rem;\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_footer-contact_hp49n_203 {\n p {\n display: flex;\n flex-direction: row;\n justify-content: center;\n align-items: center;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n display: block;\n }\n\n .custom_widget_CustomFooter_text-small_hp49n_194 {\n @media screen and (max-width: 991px) {\n font-size: 1rem;\n }\n }\n }\n\n 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Reflection vs Solitude","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:1497687"},"body":"Don't let a used or an orphan put you off. As long as you are not one of those who has to go running off to the dealer to fix every little thing an orphan like the Alpenlite or another quality builder unit that has been preowned can be had for the price of a new mid market unit that you still have to deal with once the various warrantees expire.

These things are a collection of third party parts assembled by the builder. Not much more than the house frame & what covers it is actually made by the builder. Windows & all the components inside come from somewhere else.

Chances are that when something goes wrong you ae going to be miles from your dealer anyway.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2014-11-08T06:07:28.000-08:00","lastPublishTime":"2014-11-08T06:07:28.000-08:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":1749},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:1497658/message:1497687","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"User:user:244372":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:244372","uid":244372,"login":"Justaguy","biography":null,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2014-01-18T08:11:48.000-08:00"},"deleted":false,"email":"","avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-3.svg?time=1737155183000"},"rank":{"__ref":"Rank:rank:42"},"entityType":"USER","eventPath":"community:feyqc97479/user:244372"},"ModerationData:moderation_data:1497686":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:1497686","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:1497686":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:244372"},"id":"message:1497686","revisionNum":1,"uid":1497686,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:FifthWheelforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:1497658"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:1497658"},"subject":"Re: Reflection vs Solitude","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:1497686"},"body":"
Veebyes wrote:
A quick comparisson of the Solitude 320X & my Alpenlite 34RLR revealed 2 things that stopped me in my tracks. Both the Solitude & my Alpenlite have virtually the same dry weights.

The Solitude rides on 2 6000# axels. My Alpenlite has 7000# axels & 8000# brakes.

The Solitude has only a 54gal fresh water tank. WHERE are you going with that? The Alpenlite has a 100gal fresh water tank.

The Solitude may be good enough for short weekend jaunts to the local CG but it sure is not built & set up for the rigours of long distance traveling & anything more than a couple days without water access.

Looks pretty but falls down on those 2 important but unseen items putting it solidly in the midmarket group.

JMHO.


True, but Western RV (Great Manufacturer of Alpinlite) went out of business. I am trying to find a current build that competes with this GD product both in quality and product support.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"211","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2014-11-08T03:09:26.000-08:00","lastPublishTime":"2014-11-08T03:09:26.000-08:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":1722},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:1497658/message:1497686","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"ModerationData:moderation_data:1497685":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:1497685","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:1497685":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:142397"},"id":"message:1497685","revisionNum":1,"uid":1497685,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:FifthWheelforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:1497658"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:1497658"},"subject":"Re: Reflection vs Solitude","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:1497685"},"body":"A quick comparisson of the Solitude 320X & my Alpenlite 34RLR revealed 2 things that stopped me in my tracks. Both the Solitude & my Alpenlite have virtually the same dry weights.

The Solitude rides on 2 6000# axels. My Alpenlite has 7000# axels & 8000# brakes.

The Solitude has only a 54gal fresh water tank. WHERE are you going with that? The Alpenlite has a 100gal fresh water tank.

The Solitude may be good enough for short weekend jaunts to the local CG but it sure is not built & set up for the rigours of long distance traveling & anything more than a couple days without water access.

Looks pretty but falls down on those 2 important but unseen items putting it solidly in the midmarket group.

JMHO.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"211","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2014-11-07T18:29:37.000-08:00","lastPublishTime":"2014-11-07T18:29:37.000-08:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":1733},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:1497658/message:1497685","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"User:user:342460":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:342460","uid":342460,"login":"dpam","biography":null,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2009-05-11T15:19:15.000-07:00"},"deleted":false,"email":"","avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-12.svg?time=1737155183000"},"rank":{"__ref":"Rank:rank:42"},"entityType":"USER","eventPath":"community:feyqc97479/user:342460"},"ModerationData:moderation_data:1497684":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:1497684","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:1497684":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:342460"},"id":"message:1497684","revisionNum":1,"uid":1497684,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:FifthWheelforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:1497658"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:1497658"},"subject":"Re: Reflection vs Solitude","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:1497684"},"body":"Today I was at a dealer that sells both of these trailers. I had to check what type of tires they came with and noticed they were Westlake Super St tires. These tires are manufactured in China. Because of this companies past tire issues my recommendation would be to negotiate replacing the tires with better quality tire.
Just my 2 cents worth.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2014-11-07T16:07:28.000-08:00","lastPublishTime":"2014-11-07T16:07:28.000-08:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":1740},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:1497658/message:1497684","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"User:user:246662":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:246662","uid":246662,"login":"glazier","biography":null,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2009-01-18T05:30:16.000-08:00"},"deleted":false,"email":"","avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-5.svg?time=1737155183000"},"rank":{"__ref":"Rank:rank:41"},"entityType":"USER","eventPath":"community:feyqc97479/user:246662"},"ModerationData:moderation_data:1497683":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:1497683","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:1497683":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:246662"},"id":"message:1497683","revisionNum":1,"uid":1497683,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:FifthWheelforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:1497658"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:1497658"},"subject":"Re: Reflection vs Solitude","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:1497683"},"body":"
dezolen wrote:
Mentioned Grand Design units to 2 friends after we saw them at an RV dealer when they first came out. Both were diehard Rockwood owners. First friend bought a Reflection as soon as he went to see one. The second person bought a truely 1/2 ton towable Reflection while he was vacationing in California which was just delivered as new model. I should be in sales or at least get some commission for the sales but the coaches speak for themselves.


We done something like that, saw the first Reflection units when they hit the dealers floor. I was, and still am impressed with the Reflection line. We ordered the first 337 our dealer sold, took about 3 weeks for it to be delivered.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2014-11-07T03:48:44.000-08:00","lastPublishTime":"2014-11-07T03:48:44.000-08:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":1726},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:1497658/message:1497683","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"User:user:373271":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:373271","uid":373271,"login":"dezolen","biography":null,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2008-01-01T07:45:54.000-08:00"},"deleted":false,"email":"","avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-10.svg?time=1737155183000"},"rank":{"__ref":"Rank:rank:42"},"entityType":"USER","eventPath":"community:feyqc97479/user:373271"},"ModerationData:moderation_data:1497682":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:1497682","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:1497682":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:373271"},"id":"message:1497682","revisionNum":1,"uid":1497682,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:FifthWheelforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:1497658"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:1497658"},"subject":"Re: Reflection vs Solitude","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:1497682"},"body":"Mentioned Grand Design units to 2 friends after we saw them at an RV dealer when they first came out. Both were diehard Rockwood owners. First friend bought a Reflection as soon as he went to see one. The second person bought a truely 1/2 ton towable Reflection while he was vacationing in California which was just delivered as new model. I should be in sales or at least get some commission for the sales but the coaches speak for themselves.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2014-11-06T16:39:00.000-08:00","lastPublishTime":"2014-11-06T16:39:00.000-08:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":1738},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:1497658/message:1497682","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"User:user:199429":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:199429","uid":199429,"login":"goducks10","biography":null,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2010-02-22T08:06:49.000-08:00"},"deleted":false,"email":"","avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-12.svg?time=1737155183000"},"rank":{"__ref":"Rank:rank:42"},"entityType":"USER","eventPath":"community:feyqc97479/user:199429"},"ModerationData:moderation_data:1497681":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:1497681","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:1497681":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:199429"},"id":"message:1497681","revisionNum":1,"uid":1497681,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:FifthWheelforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:1497658"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:1497658"},"subject":"Re: Reflection vs Solitude","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:1497681"},"body":"
greende wrote:
tsetsaf wrote:
A little off topic but I got a real chuckle the other day walking through the campground. Two identical Reflections setup across the aisle from one another. Similar background foliage, lawn chairs and everything. I just found it interesting and funny...


Maybe it was just a \"Reflection\"...:W. Sorry, I couldn't resist.



That's good.:)","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2014-11-06T06:03:37.000-08:00","lastPublishTime":"2014-11-06T06:03:37.000-08:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":1726},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:1497658/message:1497681","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"User:user:73028":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:73028","uid":73028,"login":"greende","biography":null,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2011-04-05T10:30:02.000-07:00"},"deleted":false,"email":"","avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-9.svg?time=1737155183000"},"rank":{"__ref":"Rank:rank:41"},"entityType":"USER","eventPath":"community:feyqc97479/user:73028"},"ModerationData:moderation_data:1497680":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:1497680","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:1497680":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:73028"},"id":"message:1497680","revisionNum":1,"uid":1497680,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:FifthWheelforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:1497658"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:1497658"},"subject":"Re: Reflection vs Solitude","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:1497680"},"body":"
tsetsaf wrote:
A little off topic but I got a real chuckle the other day walking through the campground. Two identical Reflections setup across the aisle from one another. Similar background foliage, lawn chairs and everything. I just found it interesting and funny...


Maybe it was just a \"Reflection\"...:W. 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Two identical Reflections setup across the aisle from one another. Similar background foliage, lawn chairs and everything. 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Call Customer Service for an appointment for a factory tour.

You can see the difference in the trailers visually.

We're just fine with our Reflection 323BHS. It's just perfect for our use--at a fair price for what we have. They're not selling 150+ units per month for no 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