Too Heavy for E's Tires..either LRF/LRG or 17.5 tires

FastEagle

wantabe351 wrote:
...On a Cat Scale my Montana axle weight is 12,655lbs with 7k axles(axle tag) but a tire limit of 6750lbs...My tires are the Goodyear Marathons 235/85-16e's....now after the third tire going bad.. last week was my third tire..tread is deformed from belt elongation...2011 Montana3400L with W/D and a Gen is heavy but not over weight(limit of 15,650lbs)..so when i get home Im going for all new tires I want a LRG tire but its hard to find a good tire,but going to a 17.5 rim/tire there a about 7 good brands to choose from..Now Herecules has a LRF and Kenda has a LRG and both are 235/85-16. the rims on the 5er are rated for 110psi so the rims i have will work.....any thoughts

FastEagle

Me Again wrote:
....Lots of people are hanging their hats on this Nylon overlay, and we still read a lot about Tow Max(added the overlay in recent years) and Marathon failures. Both of these are more widely used on RV trailers, as they are standard fair from Tredit. http://www.tredittire.com/Radial-Tires-C8.aspx

So best of luck with them and keep us informed.

Chris

Everyone needs to be aware that using the nylon overlay (cap ply) is a step in the right direction, but it doesn't necessarily follow that it will completely correct the problem. Tire Engineering is much more complex than that.

Tireman9 wrote:
As we all know it is the air that carries the load. Basically the more air volume (larger tire) and higher inflation pressure the higher the load capacity.

Now as we also know it is Heat that kills tires the faster rubber is "bent" through deflection the hotter it gets. A tire of size S and Load L at inflation pressure P will run hotter if it is run at speed 75 mph i.e. more bends per minute than when run slower say at 65 mph.

Now it is possible to vary L and/or P to achieve the same temperature when a tire is run at 75 as when at 65.

I do not understand the apparent confusion about these basic engineering principles.

If a tire company wants to provide a special 'non-standard" tire for a small special part of the tire market by using a "non-standard" set of Load, Pressure and Speed then I see no reason to be confused. I would think RV owners should be glad that a tire company made an effort to provide more options to the RV owner.

You've "assumed" several things in your above post. "Now as we also know" is presuming that "we also know"..... what you know from 40 years in the business...most don't know.

Next is your statement:" I do not understand the apparent confusion about these basic engineering principles." Not everyone is an Engineer and not everyone knows, "basic TIRE Engineering principles" or formula's for said processes....My Engineering education started out in 1968 in Electrical Engineering, then US Air Force, then I changed fields in 75' to Mining Engineering, nothing about tire manufacturing processes in either of those two fields...The rest, through my life has come with more schooling and "OJT" . All that to say, I can't assume most would know "basic principles" of particular fields...Thus, the reason for ALL the many threads on tire education/misinformation/information.

I would say that most rv owners are oblivious to tire information on rv's.. until they hit a forum like this or do the research. Until I got into some tire manufacturing myself YEARS ago with my company, I wasn't aware of all the specifics or "formula's" until I was involved in the manufacturing process. Same with ABS, ESC/ESP systems and brake calipers, it all comes with education and on the job training..So if I discuss these components with someone asking questions about them, , I don't 'assume" everyone knows how they work or the R&D put into the development and manufacturing of said products...


Thus the reason for all these tire threads and any other threads asking for information on "whatever" that come up on these and other forums...

As we all know it is the air that carries the load. Basically the more air volume (larger tire) and higher inflation pressure the higher the load capacity.

Now as we also know it is Heat that kills tires the faster rubber is "bent" through deflection the hotter it gets. A tire of size S and Load L at inflation pressure P will run hotter if it is run at speed 75 mph i.e. more bends per minute than when run slower say at 65 mph.

Now it is possible to vary L and/or P to achieve the same temperature when a tire is run at 75 as when at 65.

I do not understand the apparent confusion about these basic engineering principles.

If a tire company wants to provide a special 'non-standard" tire for a small special part of the tire market by using a "non-standard" set of Load, Pressure and Speed then I see no reason to be confused. I would think RV owners should be glad that a tire company made an effort to provide more options to the RV owner.

fj12ryder wrote:

Francesca Knowles wrote:
FYI:

Though perhaps reputed otherwise, the G614 is in fact a trailer tire, just without the dread "ST" label.

Even Goodyear itself only specifies it for trailer use. Try to get it to come up for any other application at this Goodyear tire selector link and you'll see what I mean. It is speed rated to 75, as are LT's. Plus it has that magic "LT" thing goin' on in the name...somewhere...

A triumph of marketing, eh? ;)

That's like the Sailun tire, listed as an LT tire, but "For Trailer Use Only" molded into the sidewall. Go figure. I have them and they seem to be fine so far.

If following the industry standard load ratings for LT tires is magic, so be it. However both the G614 and Sailun S637 LT235R85R16G follow industry standard weight ratings for passenger carrying tires, unlike the junk ST tires with inflated ratings that manufacturers stick unknowing trailer buyers with.

Geostar and Kenda both make poly ply carcass LRG tires in this same LT235/85R16G size. Both of these also follow industry load rating standards for LT tires and have service descriptions. Thus are not restricted to trailer service.

Chris

Francesca Knowles wrote:
FYI:

Though perhaps reputed otherwise, the G614 is in fact a trailer tire, just without the dread "ST" label.

Even Goodyear itself only specifies it for trailer use. Try to get it to come up for any other application at this Goodyear tire selector link and you'll see what I mean. It is speed rated to 75, as are LT's. Plus it has that magic "LT" thing goin' on in the name...somewhere...

A triumph of marketing, eh? ;)

That's like the Sailun tire, listed as an LT tire, but "For Trailer Use Only" molded into the sidewall. Go figure. I have them and they seem to be fine so far.

MNRon wrote:
Me Again - Checked my poor memory by just looking at the tires...again :)

They are RH, and the date code is only 1yr old, not 3. So hopefully I've got quite a few miles and years still ahead of me, and also hopefully Carlisle got it right this time.

Lots of people are hanging their hats on this Nylon overlay, and we still read a lot about Tow Max(added the overlay in recent years) and Marathon failures. Both of these are more widely used on RV trailers, as they are standard fair from Tredit. http://www.tredittire.com/Radial-Tires-C8.aspx

So best of luck with them and keep us informed.

Chris

Me Again - Checked my poor memory by just looking at the tires...again :)

They are RH, and the date code is only 1yr old, not 3. So hopefully I've got quite a few miles and years still ahead of me, and also hopefully Carlisle got it right this time.

MNRon wrote:
Does anyone else have Carlisle RH LRF tires? They have a ST235/85R16 with 3960 capacity. Our current 5er came with these tires (~3yr old) a few months ago. So far, so good; but I don't have a lot of experience with them.

I wrote Carlisle inquiring about their poor past and they replied the RH tires introduced a few years ago are significantly better than the prior ST tires they had, and they have not seen issues with them. Any unbiased users with experiences good/bad with their RH F tires? If the tires really are good it opens up another option for this often floated question.

Until they have more miles under them, it is an unanswered question. At 3 years old you are at the beginning of the manufacturers stated end of life cycle.

From Carlisle's web site:
– 3 to 5 years is the average life expectancy of a trailer tire,regardless of mileage.

That is a wide spread, which is it 3 years or 5 years? Does a prudent person assume 3 years?

The improvements that they talk about was the addition of a Nylon overlay in the plies. Note: Goodyear added a similar overlay years ago to their Marathon ST tire lineup.

At 44.8 lbs they are still much lighter than say the GY G614 that weighs in at 57.5 pounds. You still have a ST tire that has the inflated ratings basic on the speed restriction. Carlisle has been providing misinformation about the Radial RH and the ST speed restriction to attract the bass boat boys, claiming no speed restriction other than the posted speed limit. I believe they are now correcting the misinformation, sort of!!

Again from their wed site:
– Best practice. Do not exceed 60 mph while towing a trailer.
– Most ST trailer tires have a maximum speed rating of 65 mph.

So where is the jury? Still out and on your trailer. If your tires are 3 years old are you sure the say Radial RH on the sidewall?



Chris