Toy Hauler recommendations?
Hi all, as the title says it, I'm looking for a toyhauler.... Quick background on the situation. The fiance and I were lucky enough to full time for almost 2 years in our 5th wheel, before having to...
Forum Discussion
Yesterday I drove 3.5 hrs and thru a snowstorm in order to see a 2014 Desert Fox 24AS. On the way back home, I stopped to look closely at a 2015 Evergreen Amped 26FS. I spent at least an hour examining in and under the units, and here are my findings. Hope this helps others make similar decisions.....
Desert Fox 24AS
1) The wife does not like the interior. It is too "yellow". And it is a mismatch between modern and "grandma" styles. She's 27 though, so maybe she isn't Northwood's target market. I'm not much older, but I'm a guy and don't care as much. But as the saying goes, "happy wife, happy life", so it needs to be considered in the decision making.
2) I can tell that the Desert Fox is build stout. The frame is definitely off road ready, and I like the individually damped wheels. The bottom is buttoned up nice and tight, and I can see why it is a good 4 season unit. The walls seem thick and insulation seems above average.
3) The interior build, while somewhat outdated in places, is very well built. The cabinets are best out of all the TH brands we saw.
4) The cutting board on the sink is laughable. It is small, and not even sealed around the wooden laminate edges. it seems cut out of the same material as the counter top. Countertop space is not as much as the DW wants.
5) The rear beds are crap. I sat down on the bottom bunk and immediately heard the wood crack under my weight. I am about 200 lbs, so probably average for a red blooded american male. I checked and the panel covering the framing of the bed is around 1/8" thick. You get deflection just pushing down on the panel. Not good quality at all.
6) The fridge is amazing. The doors close with such a nice soft click. and door feels like its floating on air. Not a huge plus, but after looking at so many units, the little things catch your eye.
7) The unit comes with a 10 gallon Electric/Gas DSI combo water heater. Nice size for any TH.
8) The tires are Goodyears, so no Chinese junk tires to start.
9) Has solar built in standard, but the stock panel is small, just enough to keep the batteries topped up between uses...
10) The overall ground clearance is very good. Would be a good off-road capable unit.
11) The shower is small, and the bathroom is a bit claustrophobic. There is no shower door, just a curtain. I like shower doors since inevitably somemone will accidentally spill water onto the floor with just a curtain.
12) The storage space layout overall is very smart and logical.
13) The mattress up is front is crap, but no different than other brands.
14) Storage space under the bed is tiny.
15) Nice to have a built in compressor and pressure washer. Those are options I believe.
16) There is a large skylight in the main room that is really nice and adds alot of light into the unit.
17) The awning on this particular unit had the pitch adjustment hardware, which I think would be a useful option.
18) The fiberglass sides are non gel coat, so they looked "old". if not cleaned up.
19) This particular unit did not have the opposing convertible couches with dinette in the back. Instead it is just two beds on the electric jacks. This isn't our ideal set up. The dealer is unable to tell me if I can buy the couches separately and install.
Overall, the design and construction stands out as a well built unit, probably the best I've seen (I've checked out Attitudes/Stealths/Sandstorms/Sandsports/Amped/Lance and others). However, the QC still may not be perfect. The caulking around the windows was terrible, lots of excess pouring out the sides of the windows. Also, near one of the windows I noticed about a 2" circle that was bulging, from under a decal. I thought it was just the decal, but upon closer inspection I think the fiberglass was starting to delam. Which basically killed my desire to own this particular unit. The fix would most likely be significant work, and who's to say there isn't more issues in other spots on the same wall that could pop up after the warranty expires? Also, there were some other small fit and finish issues that lead me to believe the Northwoods isn't perfect either, just like the other manufacturers. And the craptastic rear beds put the final nail in the coffin for me, so we walked away. Which was hard, since the price was right.
Finding the delam on a new unit also made me realize I will not buy a unit sight unseen, even if it is a great deal on paper. I don't know how people can risk buying a unit 3 states away, all in the sake of a good deal. One issue like the delam is a headache not work saving a few grand for, IMO.
After seeing the Desert Fox, I convinced the DW to look at the Amped with me, so we could do a fresh comparison. We had looked at it once before, but only briefly, since we visited 5 dealers that day. Out of all the units we saw, only the Lance was better quality than the Amped, but the Lance does not have the layout we want. Manufacturers that put the fridge on the right side of the entrance door (as you are coming in) have floorplans that feel so much more "open" for the same space. Check it out, and I think you'll agree. Unfortunately, the fridges on the Lances are on the left side of the door.
After comparing the DF to the Amped, here are my findings:
1) The Amped looks nicer outside due to the more modern look, gel coat fiberglass, and and automotive style windows. No obvious sides of inferior workmanship. I think they use clear silicone for sealing panels and such, which helps make things look more neat.
2) Frame is 8" I beam. Good, but not as good as the DF (which sports 10" I Beam frame, I think ). Also, the bottom was sealed (option), but not as well sealed as the DF. The DF has insulation around the tanks, but I'm pretty sure the Amped does not have that, just a sealed underbelly. Also, there is alot of expandable foam to fill in holes. The DF was built not to need much foam. Overall, the DF could probably withstand much lower temps without freezing.
3) The ground clearance on the Amped is good. I think they improved the location of the dump pipe from 2014, it is now tucked right behind the Z frame bump in the middle. However, they still mounted the dump pipe storage tube in a location that gives it only a few inches of ground clearance. Thats pretty silly IMO, and I'd relocate that as one of first mods I did.
4) This particular unit has the Amped package, which includes electric jacks all around. A nice addition IMO.
5) The tires are China brand, but at least they are on 16"rims. There is an equaflex shock between the leafsprings, but probably not as useful as the indivdual shocks on the DF.
6) The overall storage space and headroom is best in the market, but this may lead to negative side effects. It will probably cost more to heat and cool than other units, and the overall unit height will be taller than most. I climbed up top and its scarier up there than my 5th wheel. The barrel ceiling does not help things.
7) The interior is nice, much nicer than the DF. This unit had the convertible sofas with dinette in the back, and this feature really makes a difference in layout, IMO. The overall quality of the construction of the interior is lower than the DF by a little.
8) The windows are nice and big, but I noticed the gaskets don't seal all the way around, so cold air will definitely come in more easily than in the DF, during the winter. We will most definitely have to shrink wrap the windows when we winter camp.
9) There is only 1 heat vent in the main area, as well as 1 under the step up to the bedroom. I think heating will be uneven in the unit, hopefully the ceiling fan will help distribute the heat in the winter.
10) The bathroom is nicely sized. Strange they don't install the TP holder for you. I think I'd put it on the back of the door. The shower is a decent size and has the glass walls. However, the doors only open so far, so if you are big guy (or gal) you may have trouble squeezing in.
11) This unit comes with a 6 gal DSI combo water heater. This will be fine for us, since we full timed with the same sized tank, but it would be nice to have more capacity. There is a tankless water heater option, but I'm not sure how well that works. I hear there can be some issues with it.
Overall, both are good choices, and I'd lean closer to the DF if there was a choice of interior schemes, and there were more units to see in Northern California. As of the moment, I'm negotiating on the Amped, and waiting to hear back what they can do to help me further winterize the unit (adding tank heating pads, adding fiberglass insulation, etc). I'm still unsure how much propane we will use on our weekend ski trips, I'm nervous that it will be expensive. But, as I wrap this post up, I am thinking more and more of not getting any unit, and just looking more. Which the DW will kill me for, she's hit her limit for RV shopping at the moment....
Desert Fox 24AS
1) The wife does not like the interior. It is too "yellow". And it is a mismatch between modern and "grandma" styles. She's 27 though, so maybe she isn't Northwood's target market. I'm not much older, but I'm a guy and don't care as much. But as the saying goes, "happy wife, happy life", so it needs to be considered in the decision making.
2) I can tell that the Desert Fox is build stout. The frame is definitely off road ready, and I like the individually damped wheels. The bottom is buttoned up nice and tight, and I can see why it is a good 4 season unit. The walls seem thick and insulation seems above average.
3) The interior build, while somewhat outdated in places, is very well built. The cabinets are best out of all the TH brands we saw.
4) The cutting board on the sink is laughable. It is small, and not even sealed around the wooden laminate edges. it seems cut out of the same material as the counter top. Countertop space is not as much as the DW wants.
5) The rear beds are crap. I sat down on the bottom bunk and immediately heard the wood crack under my weight. I am about 200 lbs, so probably average for a red blooded american male. I checked and the panel covering the framing of the bed is around 1/8" thick. You get deflection just pushing down on the panel. Not good quality at all.
6) The fridge is amazing. The doors close with such a nice soft click. and door feels like its floating on air. Not a huge plus, but after looking at so many units, the little things catch your eye.
7) The unit comes with a 10 gallon Electric/Gas DSI combo water heater. Nice size for any TH.
8) The tires are Goodyears, so no Chinese junk tires to start.
9) Has solar built in standard, but the stock panel is small, just enough to keep the batteries topped up between uses...
10) The overall ground clearance is very good. Would be a good off-road capable unit.
11) The shower is small, and the bathroom is a bit claustrophobic. There is no shower door, just a curtain. I like shower doors since inevitably somemone will accidentally spill water onto the floor with just a curtain.
12) The storage space layout overall is very smart and logical.
13) The mattress up is front is crap, but no different than other brands.
14) Storage space under the bed is tiny.
15) Nice to have a built in compressor and pressure washer. Those are options I believe.
16) There is a large skylight in the main room that is really nice and adds alot of light into the unit.
17) The awning on this particular unit had the pitch adjustment hardware, which I think would be a useful option.
18) The fiberglass sides are non gel coat, so they looked "old". if not cleaned up.
19) This particular unit did not have the opposing convertible couches with dinette in the back. Instead it is just two beds on the electric jacks. This isn't our ideal set up. The dealer is unable to tell me if I can buy the couches separately and install.
Overall, the design and construction stands out as a well built unit, probably the best I've seen (I've checked out Attitudes/Stealths/Sandstorms/Sandsports/Amped/Lance and others). However, the QC still may not be perfect. The caulking around the windows was terrible, lots of excess pouring out the sides of the windows. Also, near one of the windows I noticed about a 2" circle that was bulging, from under a decal. I thought it was just the decal, but upon closer inspection I think the fiberglass was starting to delam. Which basically killed my desire to own this particular unit. The fix would most likely be significant work, and who's to say there isn't more issues in other spots on the same wall that could pop up after the warranty expires? Also, there were some other small fit and finish issues that lead me to believe the Northwoods isn't perfect either, just like the other manufacturers. And the craptastic rear beds put the final nail in the coffin for me, so we walked away. Which was hard, since the price was right.
Finding the delam on a new unit also made me realize I will not buy a unit sight unseen, even if it is a great deal on paper. I don't know how people can risk buying a unit 3 states away, all in the sake of a good deal. One issue like the delam is a headache not work saving a few grand for, IMO.
After seeing the Desert Fox, I convinced the DW to look at the Amped with me, so we could do a fresh comparison. We had looked at it once before, but only briefly, since we visited 5 dealers that day. Out of all the units we saw, only the Lance was better quality than the Amped, but the Lance does not have the layout we want. Manufacturers that put the fridge on the right side of the entrance door (as you are coming in) have floorplans that feel so much more "open" for the same space. Check it out, and I think you'll agree. Unfortunately, the fridges on the Lances are on the left side of the door.
After comparing the DF to the Amped, here are my findings:
1) The Amped looks nicer outside due to the more modern look, gel coat fiberglass, and and automotive style windows. No obvious sides of inferior workmanship. I think they use clear silicone for sealing panels and such, which helps make things look more neat.
2) Frame is 8" I beam. Good, but not as good as the DF (which sports 10" I Beam frame, I think ). Also, the bottom was sealed (option), but not as well sealed as the DF. The DF has insulation around the tanks, but I'm pretty sure the Amped does not have that, just a sealed underbelly. Also, there is alot of expandable foam to fill in holes. The DF was built not to need much foam. Overall, the DF could probably withstand much lower temps without freezing.
3) The ground clearance on the Amped is good. I think they improved the location of the dump pipe from 2014, it is now tucked right behind the Z frame bump in the middle. However, they still mounted the dump pipe storage tube in a location that gives it only a few inches of ground clearance. Thats pretty silly IMO, and I'd relocate that as one of first mods I did.
4) This particular unit has the Amped package, which includes electric jacks all around. A nice addition IMO.
5) The tires are China brand, but at least they are on 16"rims. There is an equaflex shock between the leafsprings, but probably not as useful as the indivdual shocks on the DF.
6) The overall storage space and headroom is best in the market, but this may lead to negative side effects. It will probably cost more to heat and cool than other units, and the overall unit height will be taller than most. I climbed up top and its scarier up there than my 5th wheel. The barrel ceiling does not help things.
7) The interior is nice, much nicer than the DF. This unit had the convertible sofas with dinette in the back, and this feature really makes a difference in layout, IMO. The overall quality of the construction of the interior is lower than the DF by a little.
8) The windows are nice and big, but I noticed the gaskets don't seal all the way around, so cold air will definitely come in more easily than in the DF, during the winter. We will most definitely have to shrink wrap the windows when we winter camp.
9) There is only 1 heat vent in the main area, as well as 1 under the step up to the bedroom. I think heating will be uneven in the unit, hopefully the ceiling fan will help distribute the heat in the winter.
10) The bathroom is nicely sized. Strange they don't install the TP holder for you. I think I'd put it on the back of the door. The shower is a decent size and has the glass walls. However, the doors only open so far, so if you are big guy (or gal) you may have trouble squeezing in.
11) This unit comes with a 6 gal DSI combo water heater. This will be fine for us, since we full timed with the same sized tank, but it would be nice to have more capacity. There is a tankless water heater option, but I'm not sure how well that works. I hear there can be some issues with it.
Overall, both are good choices, and I'd lean closer to the DF if there was a choice of interior schemes, and there were more units to see in Northern California. As of the moment, I'm negotiating on the Amped, and waiting to hear back what they can do to help me further winterize the unit (adding tank heating pads, adding fiberglass insulation, etc). I'm still unsure how much propane we will use on our weekend ski trips, I'm nervous that it will be expensive. But, as I wrap this post up, I am thinking more and more of not getting any unit, and just looking more. Which the DW will kill me for, she's hit her limit for RV shopping at the moment....
