truck and trailer total loss due to black ice

Driving on ice is a learned skill, and you pretty much have to get it to be a reflex action to handle situations like you encountered. I instinctively pop the truck into 4 wheel drive the second it starts sliding if I'm not already in 4 wheel drive. It always depends on circumstance what comes next but I'm generally finding a little bit of gas is a better option than the brakes. Glad you're okay, and if you get a chance find an area where you can practice sliding, with the truck alone at first and then the combination if possible. Start at slow enough speeds to get the hang of it and in a situation where you won't hit anything.

Rbertalotto wrote:

4 wheel drive can be used at any time, on any road conditions, whether the conditions warrant it's use or not. No damage or harm will come to the vehicle for using 4 wheel drive, ever. I have learned that when using 4 wheel drive, it just feel more comfortable to run slower.

This is terrible advise. If the 4 wheel drive vehicle does not have a center differential, you can not operate it on dry roads. As you turn, the front left wheel and the rear right wheel will be traveling at much different speeds. If the tires don't break free of road traction, the transmission, universal joints, half-shafts, etc will experience serious abuse. You may lock the whole system up and not be able to shift out of 4WD. A very light weight Jeep or other 4WD vehicle will simply spin the rear tire. But a heavy tow vehicle, especially with the weight of a trailer on the rear axle and lots of torque and horse power will break something.

Only vehicles with "Full Time" four wheel drive can be operated on dry surfaces in 4WD. These vehicles have some type of differential in the transfer case to allow such operation.

Have to agree with RBERTALOTTO on this. AWD will do fine on dry.

My only advise would be to slow down in adverse conditions. Glad you were not hurt. I watch the weather before I leave and try to pick nice weather. Sometimes a day makes a big difference. I would never expose my RV to road salt willingly.

Sorry to hear of your loss, glad nobody was hurt. That's a ride you'll NEVER forget!!

When driving on wet roads in freezing temps you have to watch tire spray like a hawk, no spray means you're on ice. Have you ever noticed there are clearance lights on the ends of semi trailers right over the rear tandems? That's so at night it's real easy to spot road spray or lack there of. When I see "shinny" pavement it's time to slow down. :B

Another "good" indicator I have always used in freezing rain is to keep an eye no the mirror backs, if they're icing up it's time to REALLY pay attention!!!! :E

Here's a pic of what we drove through on our way out of WI headed to AZ last spring, NOT a good feeling.

Dan

Never had an experience with the trailer on black ice but I do know what it is to lose a trailer due to weather conditions. In my case, a blowover. Glad you got away with no personal injury. We did also. Extremely lucky.

I don't have years of experience driving in winter conditions but I have done more than a few Colorado ski trips. I70 in the winter will sure speed up your learning curve.

When air temps & road temps may be iffy I keep a very close eye on the air temp & also whether water is misting or spraying off the tires of vehicles around me.

4 wheel drive can be used at any time, on any road conditions, whether the conditions warrant it's use or not. No damage or harm will come to the vehicle for using 4 wheel drive, ever. I have learned that when using 4 wheel drive, it just feel more comfortable to run slower.

This is terrible advise. If the 4 wheel drive vehicle does not have a center differential, you can not operate it on dry roads. As you turn, the front left wheel and the rear right wheel will be traveling at much different speeds. If the tires don't break free of road traction, the transmission, universal joints, half-shafts, etc will experience serious abuse. You may lock the whole system up and not be able to shift out of 4WD. A very light weight Jeep or other 4WD vehicle will simply spin the rear tire. But a heavy tow vehicle, especially with the weight of a trailer on the rear axle and lots of torque and horse power will break something.

Only vehicles with "Full Time" four wheel drive can be operated on dry surfaces in 4WD. These vehicles have some type of differential in the transfer case to allow such operation.

4 wheel drive can be used at any time, on any road conditions, whether the conditions warrant it's use or not. No damage or harm will come to the vehicle for using 4 wheel drive, ever. I have learned that when using 4 wheel drive, it just feel more comfortable to run slower.

I have seen way too many campers and tow vehicles (of all sorts), flying down the road at some astonishing speeds. Even under best conditions, I rarely (if ever) go over 60 mph. I think speed is a big factor. Pushing behind the tow vehicle is another 6,000-15,000 pounds pushing forward, and pulling backwards. Far too often we forget that the shear force of the camper in motion is enough to propel the tow vehicle into oblivion. Basically, too many just don't REALLY understand the potential danger, or they think such things will never happen to them.

Living in a snow state myself, I have learned, with trailer in tow or not, when the temperatures reach freezing, it's time to slow down. Even dew on the ground, or mist in the air can settle on a road when it's freezing temperatures and cause a layer of ice that may not even be noticed. Most autos will handle it with no problem. But it only takes one time to end up having a very bad day.

Rule number 1, and probably the only rule, when temperatures reach freezing, always assume the road has ice. This will instinctive cause you to drive different.

There is the only mistake you made, you did not anticipate the ice. Once you lost control, no matter speed you were traveling, there's not a whole lot you can do on ice. You got out physically unscathed although you did loose truck and trailer. I think you handled it pretty good! Better you probably could not have done, except anticipate the ice and drive accordingly.

harry and thea wrote:

Will applying the trailer brake manually help to straighten the rig out?
Will having the truck in 4 wheel drive help? I have always been under the impression that 4 wheel drive is harmful to the drive train on dry pavement. Would it be damaging on a straight highway if black ice is possible?
Would appreciate feedback. We have bought another trailer and are in the process of buying another truck. So not giving up on rving yet. Still hope to get to Florida this winter.

Once sliding on ice, I don't think trailer brake will help, but will probably make things worse. If the ice was that bad, any brake input would start the skidding that won't stop until you find traction.

Yes to 4wd. You are correct in possible damage on dry pavement, but rolling straight is fine and you'll get enough minor slip in wheels at highway radii to not worry about damage, especially if the road is wet. I, at those temperatures with wet looking pavement will run in 4wd and take it out if pavement is dry or getting off highway where sharper turns will occur. You will feel the driveline binding in the steering before damage occurs, mostly with harder steering input required or the wheel fighting you.

As you said, the good part is that you were both ok!!

I am so glad that you two were not injured- that is the most important. Secondly, I am glad you are not quitting RVing because of this terrible incident.

You asked what you could have done differently. The first thing I will say is to slow down. 105 km or 65 mph is quite fast under the best of circumstances. Pulling a trailer on roads that have been wet with snow and when the temperatures are below freezing is a recipe for the disaster you experienced. I think 75 km or 45 mph to 90 km or 55 mph would be more appropriate.

Would lower speed have avoided the accident? No way to know. However, lower speed would certainly avoided higher impact forces in any accident.