Why doesn't the math work?

IdaD wrote:
Lots of internet lawyers in this thread. As a real one who once practiced in insurance defense, the notion that a 3/4 diesel loaded over GVWR but under tire and axle ratings is likely to be a material factor in a civil or criminal case is pretty humorous. Just my opinion of course.

As a lawyer you should be able to come up with a court case proving your theory that a 3/4 ton vehicle carrying weight above the mfg GVWR or a payload number could be used in a civil case against the operator.
Sure we can find civil cases like the poster above tried to play up as some type of evidence pertaining to the topic at hand which is carrying weight above the mfg GVWR or a mfg payload number.

IdaD wrote:
Lots of internet lawyers in this thread. As a real one who once practiced in insurance defense, the notion that a 3/4 diesel loaded over GVWR but under tire and axle ratings is likely to be a material factor in a civil or criminal case is pretty humorous. Just my opinion of course.

However, your opinion would be an expert/professional opinion, IMO.

Jerry

Lots of internet lawyers in this thread. As a real one who once practiced in insurance defense, the notion that a 3/4 diesel loaded over GVWR but under tire and axle ratings is likely to be a material factor in a civil or criminal case is pretty humorous. Just my opinion of course.

JIMNLIN wrote:

Again nothing there but theories and doesn't prove your opinion that the truck was carrying weight above a mfg gvwr or a payload number.

Show us a case where a truck was carrying weight above the mfg GVWR or a payload number or pulling weight in excess of the vehicle mfg GCWR and the driver was sued or faced criminal charges/etc.

I respectfully disagree with your reading of Heathcock. My point is you can get sued or charged if you exceed limits and bad things happen. It may be that you ultimately with the case if the other side cannot prove that exceeding that limit was the cause of the bad thing happening, but that is small consolation after being hauled into court.

As for a case exactly referring to axle or payload capacities, you are looking at this too narrowly. Legal theories paint in broad strokes. You do not have a separate legal theory for every part of the vehicle. The general theory is that exceeding the capacities of a thing can be negligent or reckless.

There is no need to belabor this further. We have our own opinions. I'm not going to change yours. I am unlikely to change mine in this regard.

Travel safely.

Heathcock v. State, 415 So. 2d 1198(Ala. 1982). Defendant was driving a coal truck that was driving too fast on a downgrade. The legal weight limit for the vehicle was 80000 +/- 10% or 88000. The vehicle weighed 96,400. Despite a complete lack of testimony that this amount overweight contributed to the accident the Cory upheld the use of that evidence as proof that the driver committed manslaughter.

The operator was speeding.....and his truck was carrying weight above the max weight allowed on a road surface (80000 lbs by fed regs) which has nothing to do with being over a the trucks GVWR number or a payload number.
Your case is a poor example of what were talking about here.

People v. Phippen, 232 A.D.2d 790 (NY Sup. Cr. 1996) (truck driver had blowout that resulted in three deaths. One of state's theories was that the vehicle being overloaded caused the blowout. The defendant was eventually acquitted but went through stress and expense of criminal trial and appeal. If the state offered evidence linking overload to the blowout he would have been convicted .)

Again nothing there but theories and doesn't prove your opinion that the truck was carrying weight above a mfg gvwr or a payload number.

Show us a case where a truck was carrying weight above the mfg GVWR or a payload number or pulling weight in excess of the vehicle mfg GCWR and the driver was sued or faced criminal charges/etc.

Its simply not there.

What your finding is typical of a illegally loaded OTR truck which is mostly 80000 lbs gross/20000 single axle/34000 lb tandems and in some cases a bridge formula violation.

The class truck in discussion doesn't fit those numbers.

Me Again wrote:
So, 250/2500 and 150/1500 should be relegated only towing bumper pulls and all hotshot haulers should be jailed?

Thousands and thousand of 250/250's show up down South each winter towing above their posted limits and I have yet to read or hear about one of them being jailed.

No, and I've never heard of it either but in a civil case with a jury that knows nothing about the subject at hand, we all know that anything can happen.

I'm certainly not a fanatic on this subject. I've been over weight myself in the past and could be pushing my truck's GVWR with my present combo depending on how I load it. But lets face it, none of us really knows what the consequences might be if things go sideways and you are over some manufacturer published number for your vehicle.

So, 250/2500 and 150/1500 should be relegated only towing bumper pulls and all hotshot haulers should be jailed?

Thousands and thousand of 250/250's show up down South each winter towing above their posted limits and I have yet to read or hear about one of them being jailed.

caber to wrote:
f you are exceeding manufacturers specifications and you get in a fatal accident you may well be sued or charged with a crime. The argument against you is that driving in excess of limits was a contributing factor in the death. You cannot stop someone from suing you or charging you. You can only fight it. If you are sued your insurance company will cover the costs of defense and some or all of any judgment against you. If you get charged with a crime the defense comes out of your pocket and there is no insurance that does your prison time for you. You may win either type of case in the end, but the costs of getting to winning criminal charges can be devastating.

In both those cases it was probably the truck's GVWR and possibly axle and tire ratings that were exceeded. I suspect it would be a somewhat more questionable when it comes to weight specifications that aren't tied to a vehicle's particular VIN or placarded component rating, such as GCWR and tow limit. Not that I would ever want to test it in court.

wilber1 wrote:
What are you towing that you need a 300 lb hitch? The 16K Draw-Tite manual slider I have been using for the past 14 years only weighs 158 lbs. plus the rails which come nowhere near 300 lbs total. The non sliding version only weighs 120 lbs. Some other options like the Anderson are even lighter still.

Draw-Tite

I used 300 lb. hitch as an example based on comments I read on this forum. We have since purchased a B & W Slider hitch which weighs 212 lbs.

I appreciate all the input and advice given on this thread. Thank you all.

wfoote wrote:
I wrote the following: Despite a complete lack of testimony that this amount overweight contributed to the accident the Cory upheld the use of that evidence as proof that the driver committed manslaughter.

Darned spell check made the word jury into Cory.

You can edit your posts to correct errors.
Barney