I was reading a post on another forum where someone said this."2008 the economy took a huge dump if you recall - and motorhome manufacturers were hit pretty hard - some went right out of business, some rallied back but it took some years. Plus the fact that there are now more manufacturers in the category, with some trying to take the entry level market - the last bunch of years of seen "some" squirrley stuff.I think it for this reason why so many speak of the 07 and back years - less corners were cut back then, and the idea of entry level DP's didn't really exist. Entry level was to buy a gasser or a travel trailer."I've not read anything about that before and I'm curious what you think? Is a 2005 - 2006 - 2007 a better made coach than 2008 - 2009 - 2010 and beyond?Thanks,HJ

There was some real junk prior to 2007. Good is Good and Bad is Bad. True today,Tomorrow and Yesterday.

I bought a 2006 because of the new pollution control equipment on the motors.

I would say the quality goes with the cost. If you want quality, you will have to pay more. That is what separates entry level and top of the line for that company. About the only thing that I would say where they were better was before they started adding all the smog devices on the engines. I personally think the engines were better before then now.But you can get a bad coach on any brand. Every company will get a lemon every so often.

It is my understanding that with big motors the emissions stuff started on 2004.

I've got an 04 Dutch Star and it does not have the pollution control equipment. I believe it started in 07. Mine can use Low and Ultra Low fuel.

Are DP's 2007 & back years make a better coach?

22 Replies

BigSkyBob
Explorer
Oct 04, 2014
When I ordered my 2008 Camelot from the Monaco factory, I insisted on a 2006 motor, which I have. No emission devices whatsoever. So, it's difficult to label all 2007 or 2008 coaches as having emission control devices, you have to check the motor.
B_s_Bunch
Explorer
Oct 04, 2014
S-n-L wrote:
HJ,

We are the proud owner of the coach in my signature. It was built in December of 07. We have owned this coach since last August. I feel our coach is built with the same quality that I have seen in coaches that are older. If you are considering buying a coach in the years that you are concerned about just go and look very carefully at it. You can see lots of things from the interior fit and finish to the wiring in the fuse boxed to the plumbing under the cabinets and service bay. If things look sloppy and misfit than walk away. If they look neat and well put together I do not think you have anything to worry about.

That being said we have had a few problems that needed to be repaired over the past year. Most of them are things that had nothing to do with Monaco/HR. They are generic parts that most motorhomes are using and subject to defect and just braking regardless of what brand or age the rig is.

I would suggest, many will disagree, you consider an extended service plan. They are expensive however they could save you lots of money in the long run if you need it. Also, it will allow you to sleep better.

Stuart
I believe the navigator is a fine coach no matter the year. Hard to compare it to some coaches out there. JMO
okgc
Explorer
Oct 04, 2014
wallynm wrote:
There was some real junk prior to 2007. Good is Good and Bad is Bad. True today,Tomorrow and Yesterday.

X2

IMO- 2007 or newer with Cummins power.
moisheh
Explorer
Oct 04, 2014
I have read that the problem is the EPA set high standards and the engine makers cannot meet these standards and maintain reliability. It could be ten years before they solve these problems. Trucking companies like Swift, Schneider et al just buy about 30% more tractors than are really required. Now this gives them a "spare" to cover the unit that spends a month at the dealership. You cannot believe the cost of the parts in the emission system. Detroit has one of the best engines in the OTR market when it comes to power and fuel efficiency. BUT most of the system is contained in a box under the passenger step. They call it the one box. The DPD, doser, catalytic convertor and more is in this box. Cost to replace is from $8000 to $12000 depending on the engine model!

Moisheh
Sully2
Explorer
Oct 04, 2014
They dont require that exhaust additive ( cant remember the name...DFS or something like that??) that isnt cheap and had to be constantly re-added
Raymon
Explorer
Oct 04, 2014
et2 wrote:
Companies begin to look for ways to maximize profits way before the real hammer falls. If they're not doing it, they won't stay in business. That could cause cutting corners in the actual manufacturing of products or not. Hopefully Much sooner than the timeframe mentioned here. Those who didn't went under.

Some of those cost savings measures could actually be still be used till this day even with a so called up swing in business. So it isn't necessarily a bad thing. What I think many see is the result of poor workmanship due to pay cuts, less benefits, layoffs, longer hours,more insurance costs pushed on to the employee. Much of this happens when the economy tanks and sales are down. When employes aren't happy you can get some that will outright sabotage your business or don't care. It's just the luck of the draw that you get a good one.

The quality of MH's reminds me of the junk automobiles we all purchased back int the 60's, 70's and 80's. Until the import autos hit the US market, the auto buyer had no choice except to buy junk. When the higher quality imports came to the US, the auto customer had a choice. It took the US auto industry many years to catch up to the quality of the imports. I purchased my first import in 1980, a Honda Accord. IMHO it has been the best car I have purchased. Sadly to say, since then I have not purchased a GM, Ford or Chrysler car.

Trucks from the big 3 is another story for another time.

Ray

The main problem is absence of real quality control measures. If MH's were subject to the same as automobiles most would never leave the factory, downturn or not. Those bad apple employees would be weeded out. Until the industry changes you take a chance no matter when you buy or what you buy IMHO.
HOM
Explorer
Oct 04, 2014
Great information and if I've learned nothing else its there are few absolutes in motor coaches. There are times of confusing however because just when I think I've learned something I'll read another post or a future post that changes it.

I've learned here that a 2007 and older coach may or may not be built better but the advancement in electronics etc my be the overriding factor in making the coach better. Although mechanics have told me through the years "if you're going to have trouble it will most likely be from electrical"!

That is not to say I am confused by what you say, its more like there is a lot more to learn than one may think at first blush! I think I have had the mind set of thinking of a motorhome too much like an SUV"?

Then again, I've not had an SUV with beds, kitchen, bathroom and a incredible desire to suck fuel. Although I had a Lincoln Navigator that did a great job of the fuel part!

It seems like the place to start is "looks". Regardless of the age, how does it look, does it look well taken care of, is all the wiring well organized and well placed, are all interior and exterior spaces clean and well maintained, is all the paperwork available?

Then take it for a test drive, how does it ride, how does it feel, is it noisy, does it accelerate as it should, does it track properly and maneuver reasonably?

Then I may even give it a day to think about what I've seen and make sure I feel the same about it the next day and how it compares to other other motorhomes I've see.

Then make the deal subject to having the oil checked by a lab and a professional run it through its paces!

Please let me know what I've missed.

HJ
hoopers
Explorer
Oct 04, 2014
Ivylog wrote:
OP, the newer and more expensive the DP, the more complex they have become. Instead of manual control we now have electric control. Instead of a simple on/off switch we now have multiplex or even Ipad control.

Much the same has happened to diesel engines that had an simple manual injection pump to todays electronic control and all kinds of added items. This is an abbreviated summary of EPA requirements for diesel engines and CA had more restive requirements even sooner. Not every manufacture met the requirements as posted below.

Actually 1998 saw diesel engine come under EPA rules and was met by going to electronic control of the bigger engines. 04 was the first major increase in emission requirements and was met by going to a high pressure rail fuel system which atomized the fuel better and putting exhaust gas back into the intake (EGR). On a turbo charged engine this is hard on the turbo so EGR coolers were added.

06 was next with low sulfur fuel (ULSF) and was met by adding a particle filter in the exhaust. Cat had so many problems with these engines (Acert) that they decided to stop making OTR engines when the next step (2010) kicked in. During this time Cummins bad mouthed Cat about getting fined by EPA for not meeting the 06 requirements while in reality Cummins bigger engines did not either BUT unlike Cat, Cummins was able to use credits from their 5.9 engines that had a different requirement... Cat did not make any small diesel engines so no credits.

2010 saw Navastar/MaxForce try unsuccessfully to meet the third step in decreased emissions by not using DEF. Everyone else went with DEF. 2016 is the next step mandated by EPA.

Extra paragraphs and extra lines added for those that cannot read (or will not read) otherwise.:)

Well said. It is not clear diesel manufacturers can reliably meet EPA requirements, even today. And depends if you get a lemon or not, when you buy a new diesel. There are some that are now saying Cummins has it figured out, but I won't buying a new diesel. But that is just me and my opinion. That is why I ended up with a gas class A.
Busskipper
Explorer
Oct 04, 2014
Ivylog wrote:
OP, the newer and more expensive the DP, the more complex they have become. Instead of manual control we now have electric control. Instead of a simple on/off switch we now have multiplex or even Ipad control.

Much the same has happened to diesel engines that had an simple manual injection pump to todays electronic control and all kinds of added items. This is an abbreviated summary of EPA requirements for diesel engines and CA had more restive requirements even sooner. Not every manufacture met the requirements as posted below.

Actually 1998 saw diesel engine come under EPA rules and was met by going to electronic control of the bigger engines. 04 was the first major increase in emission requirements and was met by going to a high pressure rail fuel system which atomized the fuel better and putting exhaust gas back into the intake (EGR). On a turbo charged engine this is hard on the turbo so EGR coolers were added.

06 was next with low sulfur fuel (ULSF) and was met by adding a particle filter in the exhaust. Cat had so many problems with these engines (Acert) that they decided to stop making OTR engines when the next step (2010) kicked in. During this time Cummins bad mouthed Cat about getting fined by EPA for not meeting the 06 requirements while in reality Cummins bigger engines did not either BUT unlike Cat, Cummins was able to use credits from their 5.9 engines that had a different requirement... Cat did not make any small diesel engines so no credits.

2010 saw Navastar/MaxForce try unsuccessfully to meet the third step in decreased emissions by not using DEF. Everyone else went with DEF. 2016 is the next step mandated by EPA.

Extra paragraphs and extra lines added for those that cannot read (or will not read) otherwise.:)

I would say Ivy pretty much covers it all.

IMHO After 2005 the industry was trying to do everything possible to to chase the highest end of the market - we saw engines increase in size the Coaches went to the limit on Height and the amount of glitz started to blind you as you entered the Coaches. That said -- you can find Quality in all the years, you just need to decide what is important to you and then find it in the market. There where great Coaches in the 70's - 80's - 90's 00's and there are great Coaches now, just look them over, different but still good.

BOL,
et2
Explorer
Oct 04, 2014
Companies begin to look for ways to maximize profits way before the real hammer falls. If they're not doing it, they won't stay in business. That could cause cutting corners in the actual manufacturing of products or not. Hopefully Much sooner than the timeframe mentioned here. Those who didn't went under.

Some of those cost savings measures could actually be still be used till this day even with a so called up swing in business. So it isn't necessarily a bad thing. What I think many see is the result of poor workmanship due to pay cuts, less benefits, layoffs, longer hours,more insurance costs pushed on to the employee. Much of this happens when the economy tanks and sales are down. When employes aren't happy you can get some that will outright sabotage your business or don't care. It's just the luck of the draw that you get a good one.

The main problem is absence of real quality control measures. If MH's were subject to the same as automobiles most would never leave the factory, downturn or not. Those bad apple employees would be weeded out. Until the industry changes you take a chance no matter when you buy or what you buy IMHO.