Class B sales share of market expected to increase

trop-a-cal wrote:
The "B" would not be what it is today without the Benz. That 3500 platform is far better than any US designed B yet. Of course they have been in Europe for years and are 98% of the motorhomes in Europe. Although with US diesel fuel cost higher than gasoline, they are rated around 18 MPG which when compared to gasoline prices is about 15 MPG, cost wise. The US sells much of US Diesel to Europe, as they pay more for it than the US customers will. Perhaps that will change if and when the US and other countries start using Natural and propane gas for vehicles. The main advantage to a "B" is its size allowing it to be a daily driver and an home. As for long term stays it does not feel as homey as an A or even a C. The fact they presently qualify as a second home and are deductible as is mortgage interest on your primary home, may disappear when deductions are taken away for higher tax revenue in DC. To "B" or not to "B" that is the question?

I wouldnt conclude that the 3500 is the best platform yet. The increased weight and length of the Sprinters from 20-21ft11 up to now, 22ft9 ins and 24ft and over, makes it way heavier which is a challenge for the excellent V6 MB t/diesel but the power to weight ratio has a cost and that is in mpg. The 3500 has it's qualities too but mileage is just somewhat better than gassers ie Excel TS/TD(good rigs). My 2500 chassis at 21ft11 ins and with NO dualies and around 8500 lbs plus or minus, gets about 30 to 32 mpg on a Canadian(Imperial Gallon) which means about 26 or better on US gallon. If you have a zip on Florida room the B Sprinter becomes a different cat altogether. It takes care of the need for room with "long term stays", but there is always a compromise unless you buy BIG. We owned a 23 ft Traillite C and a 28 plus ft Winnebago Aspect and while I agree they had their virtues we find our Sprinter B VERY homey, especially at night, at the back with the electric coach down into a bed, TV or video on, glass of Merlot on hand and, you get the homey picture. Just like home. Alternative might be a 38 to 40 ft multi slide rig but then, I might as well stay home at my home by the seaside, instead of hauling my vacation home all over the map. The B rocks!!! Great second vehicle too.

Mlts wrote:
I'm curious to see how the Transit five-banger coming out this summer in the US compares to the model you rented (or as Europeans say, "hired") in France.

What I want to see in the US is the extra-tall "B" van, similar to the pre-Sprinter Airstream "B"s. This would allow the RV maker to either make a loft bed, or for the people too lazy to climb up, have a bed that drops down, similar to the Winnebago Trend, but when the bed is up, still have a reasonable standing height.

People tend to use the full size Sprinter as a B van here. You are getting Ducato's as well. I do not know how the US Transit will come out. They do not use the older Transits for B's here.

Let's stick to the topic folks. If you want to talk about things other than the topic of the thread, please start a new one.

Thanks

We have also rented motorhomes in Europe, in 2008,2010,and 2013.The first two were standards , the third one was an automatic standard.All three wee Ducatos.

this year i decided to keep track of the MPG. We got 28.5 MPG ( U.S. gallon) travelling in southern Germany and Austria. ( part time in the Alps.) The photo of the campsite in paris looks like the Boie de Boulogne. Camping can be very cheap in Europe. Get yourself a copy of" Reise mobil international Bord atlas " All the cheap sites are in there. One further tip if you rent for an extended period. Rent in Germany.Europe has a VAT ( value added tax ) of 19 %. In Germany if you rent for a long period (31 days ) You do not pay the vat .We rented in September and the daily rate dropped from 96 euro to 76 euro for 28 days and 54 euros for the extra 3 days. This is for unlimited mileage.

mlts22 wrote:
I'm curious to see how the Transit five-banger coming out this summer in the US compares to the model you rented (or as Europeans say, "hired") in France.

What I want to see in the US is the extra-tall "B" van, similar to the pre-Sprinter Airstream "B"s. This would allow the RV maker to either make a loft bed, or for the people too lazy to climb up, have a bed that drops down, similar to the Winnebago Trend, but when the bed is up, still have a reasonable standing height.

The bulk of Transit sales to RV manufacturers in Europe has been the front-drive version that competes with Ducato, Master and the VW T-van, which most often carries the 2.2 or 2.4 Duratorq, although the 2.0 is available and shows up in ads (for sales and rentals) in entry-level C's and a lot of van conversions. Similarly, VW T-vans in the RV conversion market do not often have the largest available engine.

The 3.2 Duratorq that will be modified to become a Powerstroke was used in "heavy goods" size Transits (i.e. over 3500 KG) that do not play much of a role in the RV industry, due to tax and licensing issues.

Our market is different, because we don't run into those vehicle size roadblocks until we get to 8600 to 26,000 pounds (depending on state) and most states make exemptions for RVs (but not necessarily RV tow vehicles). Thus European vans brought over here can have higher GVWRs without killing marketability, and our driving styles and penchant for towing things behind our vans and RVs means we get bigger engines than used in Europe or East Asia. Australia also gets the bigger vans and bigger engines, the market and licensing rules are more like ours.

bobojay5 wrote:
I was going to say, where did that 98% figure for MB RV's in Europe come from. The vast majority of them are Ducatos.
Not to mention that the Ducato sells way more units as a whole than the Sprinter

I don't think anyone has 98% of the market for RV platforms in Europe.

Who leads is going to depend on what year you are looking at, because since the 1980's Renault, FIAT and Ford have been leap-frogging each other in platform updates and market share. It also depends on what country; e.g. Transit often leads as the building platform in the U.K. even when Renault or FIAT dominate on the continent. Also, VW has a bigger (but still small) share in Germany than they do in France, Italy, Spain, or the UK, and French buyers will take their Ducato with a Citroen badge, and that just doesn't play in Italy.

Last year for which I have EU sales statistics, 2009, motorhome platform distribution was 63.5% FIAT, 18.7% Ford, 7.3% Citroen (a badge engineered FIAT), 4.5% Mercedes, 3.5% Renault, 1.8% VW. That included van conversions, and motorhomes equivalent to our C's and A's.

This was from an article in "L'essential du Camping-Car" (April-May-June 2010) about the new Renault Master, speculating that it might be able to recover market share from FIAT. The point being that before introduction the current version of the Ducato, Renault led the market with the Master, though not as dominantly as FIAT is doing currently.

I'm curious to see how the Transit five-banger coming out this summer in the US compares to the model you rented (or as Europeans say, "hired") in France.

What I want to see in the US is the extra-tall "B" van, similar to the pre-Sprinter Airstream "B"s. This would allow the RV maker to either make a loft bed, or for the people too lazy to climb up, have a bed that drops down, similar to the Winnebago Trend, but when the bed is up, still have a reasonable standing height.

We rented this German made, Ford Transit Diesel powered, 6 speed manual transmission equipped class C in Germany.
Shown below in our Paris, France Campground.


Here it is again in Verdun, France amongst other European RV's.

I was going to say, where did that 98% figure for MB RV's in Europe come from. The vast majority of them are Ducatos.
Not to mention that the Ducato sells way more units as a whole than the Sprinter

trop-a-cal wrote:
Of course they have been in Europe for years and are 98% of the motorhomes in Europe.

Please correct me if wrong on this, but what I've seen in Europe (when browsing the motorhome dealers there), the most common platform in use for both "B"s (campervans) and "C"s is usually the Ducato chassis. In fact, Fiat has a dedicated website (www.fiatcamper.com) for end users to check for recalls and such for their motorhome's chassis.

In Europe, the Ducato is on a manual-shifting, small turbocharged Multijet diesel engine. It isn't fancy, but it gets the job done. to boot, they sell FWD, RWD, and AWD models over there, so there are a lot more possibilities.

Sprinters are in use as upfitted campervans in Europe, but even the German RV makers like Globecar and Westfalia have Ducatos as their mainstay.

I do agree the Sprinter has helped, because the Euro-van profile gives more headroom without needing a fiberglass roof extension, and is very good when it comes to fuel economy.

However, having more van platforms to choose from can't hurt things. Especially the Ford Transit which is a complete wild card due to its complete redesign. The Transit is interesting because the turbocharged V-6 will allow for minimal power loss when at higher altitudes, and has a diesel-like torque curve while using gasoline.

Time will tell. These next 12-18 months will be one of the most active times for the "B" market since the T1N Sprinter hit the US shores about a decade ago.