Converting Class B to 4 Seasons

loggenrock wrote:
A few times we've been caught by unexpected cold weather. I've found we can still function down to 28° in our Roadtrek without draining tanks, etc. I will open cabinet doors to allow warm air to get to the plumbing, keep the hot water heater on, and run the furnace as needed to maintain an inside temperature of around 50°, for my comfort as well as the plumbings! Haven't had to do this for more than 3 days at a time. It takes a LOT of cold to freeze up 20 gallons of water in a tank, as compared to a few ounces in a pipe... and if black/gray tanks start to freeze, as long as they aren't full there is room for expansion, they will thaw! ST

I agree.

truepath wrote:
I spend a lot of time camping in cold weather. The term "cold" is somewhat relative. I would say that most people consider anything less than mid 40's as cold since some kind of auxiliary heating is needed. For me, temps down to the low 30's can be pretty easily handled with a small electric space heater (1500 watts), particularly if the sleeping area can be isolated at night to keep it warm. Without electricity, you are forced to use the furnace some. At this temperature range, I don't worry about water freezing. Once the night temps get below the high 20's I start to think about potential freezing and if the night temp gets below about 28 and the day time temps are in to low 30's or less, then I'll drain the fresh water lines and rely on water from a 5 gal. water jug. Finally, if the temps are not going to be above freezing for an extended time, I'll drain all tanks and put RV antifreeze into all drain traps. At this point, a small space heater is no longer enough and the furnace needs to be used with increasing frequency as the temp. drops through the 20's, teens and single digits. I've camped down to the minus single digits, but for the most part I give it up if its colder than about 10 degrees. From a comfort perspective, wear some wool socks, long johns, long sleeve t shirts and a vest. this keeps you comfortable in fairly cool conditions. Put some heavy rugs on the floor and line your back windows with winter insulating film. In short, camping in cold weather isn't difficult or complex, just keep and eye on the temps. I think the worst part (by far) of cold weather RV use are problems with snow, ice and worst of all, road salt. (If you are from a way warm area, then also be sure your antifreeze up to speed, tires have proper inflation and crankcase oil is the correct viscosity for both your vehicle engine and generator.)

This one of the best, comprehensive and sensible submissions i have seen in my years on this website. Clearly, we have to assess the conditions as they emerge or are anticipated to exist. I have done exactly what has been suggested but i forgot about the outside hose being connected overnight one time and the frozen snake greeted me in the morning with a cold stare!! Good suggestions, for sure.
Al

We used an electric heater and garbage bags or canvas to cover the area to unfreeze a valve. Usaly only takes 15 or 20 min. As said above be sure to have the discharge hose hooked up.
I did add the valve heaters to my rig. Which has taken care of it so far.

"The only trouble I've run into with this setup was that my gate valves froze up once and I couldn't dump. They make gate valve heaters that I may add to fix that."


The issue with dump valves freezing up preventing dumping was a problem I solved by channeling exhaust gas from the tailpipe via a flex line sold at auto supply houses. The original purpose of this hose was to channel dealy gases outside the enclosure that a vehicle was being worked on. I store the hose in a made up cylinder of PVC pipe capped with screwed on plugs and hung it behind the rear bumper. The dicharge end is affixed with a made up wire hanger bent to hold the flex tube so that most if not all the gasses discharge at and around the valve. Really cold freeze up or windy conditions have required as much as 15 minitues the thaw the valve free enough to crack open an allow flow to begin. Needless to say that the discharge hose to the dump openning needs to be in place.

On the Sportsmobile forums, one person has made a water recirculation system that tees off the output of the water heater, runs along the plumbing lines and tanks, then dumps the water back in the FW tank. Done right, this will go a decent way in keeping plumbing above freezing... well, until the propane runs out.

The downside is that the recirculation system would need to be blown out if one is going to winterize and store their rig without having the water heater running 24/7.

I rebuilt inside our RV, and ran ducting for the heater along the water pipes so that they won't freeze as long as we don't. I also added tank heaters and enough battery capacity to run them overnight (barely).

Our operating procedure in the winter is something like this:
Turn on tank heaters for grey and black tanks and piping.
Prime grey and black tanks with about a gallon each of RV antifreeze.
Fresh water lines are all inside, and alongside heated ducts - keep the furnace set to a reasonable temperature 24x7.
Keep water heater on.
Use RV normally.

The only trouble I've run into with this setup was that my gate valves froze up once and I couldn't dump. They make gate valve heaters that I may add to fix that.

This is in Utah, and is what I've done down to almost 0 degrees. Of course, as those temperatures, I have ice on the *inside* of the single pane automotive windows when we wake up...

We have used the Wag Bag with better results than we expected. We used an electric ceramic heater to keep warm. Ran the generator one evening, used shore power the next and managed just fine. Brought along water in empty gallon milk jugs. Showered at the "Flying J" truck stop.

Showers are highly overrated. I still remember when we were kids and baths were taken on Saturday nights.

A few times we've been caught by unexpected cold weather. I've found we can still function down to 28° in our Roadtrek without draining tanks, etc. I will open cabinet doors to allow warm air to get to the plumbing, keep the hot water heater on, and run the furnace as needed to maintain an inside temperature of around 50°, for my comfort as well as the plumbings! Haven't had to do this for more than 3 days at a time. It takes a LOT of cold to freeze up 20 gallons of water in a tank, as compared to a few ounces in a pipe... and if black/gray tanks start to freeze, as long as they aren't full there is room for expansion, they will thaw! ST

We spend the Holidays in Vermont. Last year, I filled the fresh water tank with RV antifreeze so that the toilet would function. It worked ok but was not great. This year we blew the system out with air and drained the tanks. To use the toilet, we use squirt bottles of RV antifreeze. We use wipes for cleaning. Of course, we only use it to travel and take naps on the road. We generally stay in hotels or inns for overnights.

With a Class B a lot depends on the design and placement of the plumbing. Most Class Bs are not designed to allow for tank heaters, etc. The easiest thing to do is be prepared to winterize as soon as you get a weather report of freezing temps where you are heading or where you happen to be on a winter trip. You can still travel in your Class B in the winter in freezing temperatures and no water in your plumbing. Drink bottled water, wash using bottled water and a basin fit into the sink that will get dumped at a restroom, and flush using antifreeze poured from the bottle or put into your fresh tank and flushed through the pipes as usual. Your grey tank will remain empty and your black tank will only have waste and antifreeze inside. Even with $3 a bottle antifreeze this is not cheap to do, but it will save your pipes from damage. Once you head back south where the temperatures are well above freezing you just de-winterize and flush the plumbing.

My Roadtrek has both an exterior and an interior fresh tank and is supposed to be able to go to 14dF using the interior tank only - but that is with interior heat maintaining "room temperature" 24/7 - and the waste tanks also need antifreeze in them to keep them from freezing. It is not really practical.