Mopar home or no home! What to look for?

Dwade277,

I agree with the advice of Bordercollie and a few others. You really want to stay away from such old RV construction practices and obsolete chassis technology. You may know a lot about the old Dodge and have parts on-hand, but your family will be so much safer in a rig built since Y2K. And that will limit you to the Chevy/GM and the Ford E350/E450. Try your best to avoid rear drum brakes for good consistent brake performance. With the Fords I think rear disk brakes were introduced right around Y2K.

Regarding the construction of the house, you'll want to read through my long winded response below. I have been inside many old motor homes where they would get donated to. Most had water leaking issues that made it hard to breathe inside them. Please don't expose your family to anything like that.

Ron
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New, used, or well used, when shopping for a conventional class B+ or C, the most important consideration is how it is constructed. This post outlines construction methods which are most affordable and methods that cost more, but are built to hold up much better to the elements and also the punishment of the road.

Some motor home manufactures offer different levels of quality through their various model lines. Instead of providing a list of brands to consider, it is best to identify what "Better" is.

When shopping for a motor home, don't get distracted with what I call "Eye Candy" or "Square Footage". You want to pay close attention to how the house is constructed. Water infiltration is the number one killer of motor homes, rotting them away long before anything is worn out. Once water gets inside, it is like termites. By the time you realize there is a problem, a lot of damage has already occurred. Also consider that mold & mildew can grow inside the walls which then you have a health hazard. My advise focuses on identifying a reliably well sealed motor home.

#1 BEST (Very Expensive, Can Be 1.5 times the cost of Second Best)
NO structural seam work. The brand Coach House is a fine example. It is seamless, made from a mold. The only places where water can leak is cutouts for windows, entry door, roof-top vents & a/c unit, storage compartments & maintenance access, all of which are in areas of very low stress. Because they have a seamless shell, these motor homes have a limited selection of sizes.

#2 SECOND BEST
Common, Affordable, & comes in Many Sizes so this is my main focus
I own an example of this type. My Rig Here manufactured by Phoenix USA.
Made in sections, but assembled in a way that greatly reduces the threat of water damage. Here are the good things you want to look for.

a) Structural Seams Away From Corners
When a motor home is driven, the house bounces, resonates, shakes, and leans countless times, representing a series of extended continuous earthquakes. Corner seams see greater stresses than seams located elsewhere. Corner seams are more easily split, especially when the caulk gets brittle with age & exposure to the sun. One extremely bad bump in the road can instantly breach a corner seam. Seams hold up much better when they are brought in from the corners in lesser stressed areas.

b) A Seamless Over-The-Van Front Cap
A huge bed above the van’s roof is the most vulnerable area of a motor home. No matter how well they are made, that long frontal over-hang resonates when the RV is driven. It is common for seams to split there, most troublesome with age & exposure to the elements. HERE is a more recent example, one of many I have read. The small front aerodynamic cap of a B+ design HERE eliminates the overhang which eliminates most of the resonation, along with most seam work.

There are a few conventional “C” Designs (big over-van bed) where that area is seamless. If you absolutely must have that huge bed, then look for a seamless bucket-like design. Born Free offers a seamless bucket design as seen in This Model. The Itasca Navion Here is another fine example. Some manufactures as of late offer a partial bucket design with fewer seams located in less-stressed areas. Some manufacture models like the Minnie Winnie and the Nexus Phantom utilize a compromising partial bucket design, making it a better choice compared to a fully seamed cab-over bed.

If you plan to accommodate more than 2 people, having that large extra cab-over bed will be extremely useful.

c) A Crowned Roof
Rain and snow melt runs off a crowned roof. A flat roof will sag over time, then water puddles around heavy roof-top items like the a/c unit. Water eventually finds it's way inside after gaskets & caulk have degraded from age, sun, and change in seasons.

d) Rolled-Over-The-Edge seamless Fiberglass Roof Sheathing
A single sheet of fiberglass as shown HERE that rolls over the right & left sides of the roof, down to the wall. The overlapping of fiberglass to the wall provides a good water seal and the fiberglass sheathing holds up better than roofs made of sheet rubber or thin plastic called TPO, which require more attention to keep your RV well protected.

e) A Five Sided Rear Wall Cap
A five sided back wall moves the seams around to the sides to areas of much less stress as seen HERE. The rear wall resembles a shallow rectangular cooking pan standing on it's side. Like the example, some rear wall sections are constructed with an integrated spare tire compartment and rear storage compartment. Not only are they convenience features, but that rear wall/cap offers a solid double-wall for exceptional strength which is more resistant to flexing the adjoining seam work.

Don't be fooled. There are a select few manufactures who add rear wall sectional styling pieces over an entry level rear corner seam design which gives the appearance of a 5-sided pan design. You can easily tell by noting the sections & seams between them and the flat back wall that remains exposed.

Bigger Will Be Weaker
The size & floor plan you select MUST FIRST meet your needs before this consideration.
The bigger the house, the weaker the structure will be. Consider two cardboard boxes made from the exact same corrugated material. The smaller box would naturally be stronger. It will be more resistant to bending, twisting, and other types of flexing. So if you are on the fence between models, the smaller one will be your stronger choice.

Potentially Troublesome Construction
Entry level motor homes are made with seams in corners and finished off with trim, including the massive cab-over bed. Their roof is flat and finished with rubber or TPO. They are most affordable, and come in all sizes. HERE is one such example. If considering this construction type, keep in-mind they require more regular care with bi-annual inspections. Plan to use a caulking gun now and then. When buying a used one, consider that you really don't know how well the previous owner maintained it. Buying new or used, that construction method will be counting on you to be a good non-neglectful owner.

There are also the rare exception of the Lazy Daze which has seam work in the corners, but the substructure and sealing method is of the highest quality that it holds up like a seamless body. It's excellent sectional construction methods are not commonly found in other brands. I am no expert on this, but I'd give it a #1.5 Almost Like Best

About The Chassis
The most popular is the Ford E-Series with the V10 engine. The Sprinter diesel is a popular alternative to the E350 in the smaller sizes. Also within this past year is the recent introduction of the Ford Transit. The GM chassis is not popular, but is a very good choice for the right application. Any of these chassis made since 1998 are real good, new or used. If you plan to tow a car or heavy trailer, be aware that the Sprinter & Transit will be least powered. People who tow with them naturally take it slower.

If considering a current-day “small” class B+ or C motor home, here is a comparison between the two current main contenders, the Sprinter with the V6 diesel engine and the Ford E350 with the V10 gasoline engine.

Advantages Of The Mercedes Sprinter With Diesel Engine
- Offers a 35%-50% improvement in fuel economy over the Ford-V10, when both are loaded and driven identically.
- More ergonomic driver compartment with more leg room.
- Comfort continues with a car-like feel & quiet ride.
- A grander view out the windshield
- Made by Mercedes which people are attracted to.

Advantages Of The Ford E350 with V10 Engine
- Given identical motor homes both brand and model, the Ford is around $13,000 MSRP cheaper
- The Ford V10 engine has 50% more horse power and torque
- The Ford E350 chassis handles 1430 pounds more weight.
- The E350 is able to tow a heavier load.
- The E350 rear axle is significantly wider which translates to better stability.
- In most places traveled, gasoline costs less than diesel fuel
- The Sprinter diesel has limited mechanical service shops around North America
- The Sprinter diesel is typically outfitted with a propane generator. Propane is a critical fuel for RV operations, and generally needs to be rationed when dry camping.
- This Next Point Is Debatable But Still Worth Noting....The V6 Sprinter diesel engine is not allowed to idle for extended periods. This limitation is detrimental when you need a/c but there are generator restrictions or you are dangerously low on propane, or you have a mechanical failure with the generator or roof a/c. The Ford V10 can safely idle for hours on end, heating, cooling, and battery charging, all valuable if you have a baby, pets, or health/respiratory issues.

You decide what your priorities are, and pick the appropriate chassis. There are some really sweet motor homes being built exclusively on the Sprinter chassis, such as the Winnebago Via, View and View Profile. Others like Phoenix USA build their model 2350 and 2400 on both the Sprinter and Ford E350. They will even build it on the heaviest duty E450 upon request for a nominal fee. People who request an E450 for a small motor home, tow heavier things like for example, a multi-horse trailer. You can even special order a E350 & E450 4x4.

There is so much cool stuff offered in recent years on the Sprinter and most recently on the new Ford Transit.

The Ford Transit Chassis
This chassis has the potential to dominate the class B+ & C motor home market in the smaller sizes. According to Ford's website, the Transit DRW chassis is offered in the 156", and 178" wheel base, and is rated as high as 10,360 GVWR. Ford offers a motor home package specific for the RV industry. It's diesel engine compares to the Sprinter in power and fuel economy, but is more affordable and is easily serviced at Ford service centers, just like the E350/E450. The cab has a much lower stance than the Sprinter making it much more friendly to get into and out from for people in their later years. It's more like a mini-van rather than a standard van. The Transit's lower cab also offers roomier over-head bunks that are easier to access.

The Dodge Promaster 3500 Cut-Away Chassis
This front wheel drive chassis is another recent entry in the RV industry. I am concerned over it's lack of load capability as reflected with single free-wheeling rear wheels. I have been reading posts written by new Promaster RV owners stating they are over-weight with just two people, some personal effects and food. They say they can't carry water and never a 3rd person. I would not be comfortable with such a limited load range in a B+ or C. This chassis does seem ideal for the straight "B" motor home market.

The Chevy 3500/4500 Chassis
Unfortunately this chassis is not more popular, primarily because GM sort-of gave up on competing with the Ford E350/E450. It offers more interior comfort than the Ford, but not as much as the Sprinter. It's power & weight ratings are a little less than their Ford counter-parts making them a great chassis for all but the heaviest of class Cs. They are also a little better on fuel consumption. One thing to keep in-mind, if you are counting inches in storing your rig, the Chevy is a little longer than the Ford by a number of inches which was critical for us with our garage as seen HERE with our Ford 2007 E350 rig. That could be the reason why the Chevy has a little more interior driver/passenger leg room.

Engine Power Ratings of Ford, MB-Sprinter, Chevy, and Dodge
Ford E350/E450 - 6.8L-V10, 305hp, 420ft
Ford Transit Diesel - 3.2L-I5, 185hp, 350ft
Mercedes Sprinter Diesel - 3.0L-V6, 188hp, 325ft
Chevy 3500/4500 - 6.0L-V8, 323hp, 373ft
Dodge Promaster - 3.6L-V6 (GVW only 9,300 pounds)

Our old 24 foot '79 Higgins Delta had corrugated(?)metal siding and lots of leaky corner joints. I think that current smooth laminated siding may be more leak resistant. Inspect the roof for any soft spots and cracks where vents and AC unit, etc. penetrate the roof. Inspect the ceiling and areas around side windows and front overhead window areas for water leak damage. Mold is a health hazard.

You can get a nice one for that. Had 2 great ones. 73 Gladding del ray and 73 Tioga Arro both had Mopar 360 2bbls. The Tioga was better suggest looking for one of them.

Keep an eye out for a Travco. The rounded shape will produce less wind resistance and you'll have less strain on the drive train. I'd take a 318 over a 360 anytime, btw.

We had a 360 in a 22' Winnebago when I was a teen. In a strong headwind, Dad had to keep in floored just to maintain 50 mph. In normal circumstances it wasn't too bad, though.

Sounds like a good time to get to know a different engine. The best thing between then and now is that they were all BASICALLY the same externally, certinaly not true today. How often do you plan to get into that engine deep enough to need your experience with Dodge products? Access alone to any engine can be a nightmare

For what it's worth, a Ford V-10 E-450 with EFI instead of standard carb and with adequate engine cooling system and disc brakes is much better than 60's technology for powering and stopping a motorhome on long mountain grades on hot days. We had a72 Dodge maxi-van with points, quirky firewall electrical connector interface and cooling system.
Old Dodges have 8.00 x16.5 wheels for which old design bias belted tires are scarce. There are wheel conversions to use common 16 inch steel belted radial tires. Save your money and buy something much newer, less fiddly and safer.
Whatever you buy make sure tires are free of sidewall cracks and are less than 5 or 6 years old to avoid tire failure and damage to underside item of RV. RV tires go bad sitting parked and may fail despite looking like new. Replace old front brake flex lines andflush old brake fluid, check and service entire brake system for safety.

If not strongly committed to a type C, you might look at classic Winnebagos 1969-1980 or so. The Brave models in 19-23 foot range had more room inside than C models of similar overall length and many had bunkhouse solutions for sleeping 4-6 people in the shortest model, using in some cases pull-down bunks. Smaller models used the 360, larger ones the 440 big-block.

If you prefer a C, their first C (MinnieWinnie) showed up in the early 1970s. Most of these will be 360s.

Equivalent Itasca models from that era won't work for you, that was when Winnebago created the Itasca brand to build on GM chassis, a way to get around an exclusive provider contract with Chrysler.

From 1969, Winnebago was building with laminated panel wall construction, at first with steel tubing in the walls, later with aluminum. Most other manufacturers not using molded shells were stick-building the house well into the 1980s. This is one of the reasons you can find a lot more old Winnebagos than some other brands, they lasted longer. Same for American Clipper, Midas, you find more of them pre-1980 because they were build well enough to survive.

Folks in this part of the country are finding great deals (a few hundred to couple thousand dollars) on Braves, particularly, but also the larger Chieftain, that have been sitting unused, often stored under cover. Usually good running gear (except tires and rubber tubing), solid house, appliances and furnishings sometimes needing repair or rebuilding. This is kind of regional, as Midwest farmers and ranchers have lots of storage buildings, take care of things mechanically, and have a hard time throwing anything away that is still usable, leaving it all for their heirs to sell for whatever they can get.

Restorations are not such a bargain, folks think they have a classic to sell and might be asking $5000 to $15,000 for something more than 40 years old.

Other brands, most of what you find prior to mid 1970s in type C or small A motorhomes will be on Dodge chassis, as GM and Ford were later entries into this business. In larger RVs, independent chassis builders were using Ford and GM drivetrains, or at least engines and transmissions, but the manufacturers themselves were ignoring the RV market, although they had bare chassis to sell into other markets.

In my opinion the best thing you can do is get out there, go camping, take the kids and see America. How to do that is the question. If I were you I would consider a tent or small trailer. Cars, boats, motorhomes all die at some point.

Taking a 40 year old rig across country may not be the best idea. Problem is you can spend thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours just trying to keep the thing on the road. And I would ask myself do you really want to have a blown up tranny in some small town in Nebraska?

Its all a game of chance, for all I know you could never have a problem. But at your young age, with young kids, and I assume limited financial resources. I would go with the tent or trailer idea, and save the MH money for those daily living kid expenses that always come up. And spending money while on vacation to do really fun and interesting things with the kids, rather than have it all tied up in some hunk of junk MH.

And I know that is not really the question you asked, and I apologize, for that. Just saying, been there, done that, with cars, boats and motorhomes, truth be told it never ended very well, lots of labor, lots of money, still hunks of junk, at the end of the day.

One last thought, if what you want to do is go camping locally, where you can tow it home if it breaks, that is one thing. But to go across country, up mountains, through Midwest heat, long stretches with no towns, and have it break 2 thousand miles from home, that is different, in my opinion, not something I would want to risk, with that old of a rig. Unless it had been totally gone through and rebuilt.

Thank you Toedtoes, I will be on the lookout for an American Clipper! I like the idea of fiberglass body.
Also thank you Sam Spade. There is wisdom in your words.

I think you REALLY need to save up for a couple of years.....or revisit your budget....and find another 10K or so to spend.

In general, any C you find for $3K will be junk with some things not really "fixable".

If you can get up to $15K or so and shop carefully what you get should be a practical project. With patience you can sometimes find a "motivated seller" and get C that is only 10-15 years old for that price that can actually be used without putting another $10K and several years into rebuilding it......only to have it be worth no more on the open market than what you origianlly paid.

I think your obsession with Dodge will be doing you a dis-service. There really aren't that many models to choose from.