Toad....4 wheels down

I have a 2003 Jeep Wrangler TJ, my first, which I drive daily and also tow. It has been an excellent vehicle except for the steering box which I had rebuilt because the replacement was so expensive (made by Mercedes in that year). I also had a 93 Tracker for 3 years which was an excellent little 4x4 but not as capable as the Jeep.

I am aware of the reputation for Jeeps but have experienced the exact opposite and so have several people I know who own one, including the garage that services my vehicle. My wife now owns a four door JK Sahara and loves it. Her next vehicle, if we ever need one, will be a Grand Cherokee; I plan on keeping my TJ forever.

JimM68 wrote:

joethesmoee wrote:

PRodacy wrote:
Jeep wranglers are great toads and are readily available.

pure overpriced junk

We're all entitled to our opinions, assenine tho some may think them.


Jeep Wranglers are the best toads, If you can work with the small size.
They are ruffed, reliable, don't rust out, and hold their value better than any other car in America

I wouldn't count on a Jeep Wrangler not rusting out. Frame rust issues due to the design is a problem. If you're picking up a used Wrangler.. Definitely inspect the frame. Otherwise, awesome vehicle. Just search: Jeep TJ rusted frame.

We absolutely loved (and still have it with 175,000 miles on it) our 2004 Jeep Liberty. It gave us so much fun 4-wheeling. Unfortunately, they aren't produced anymore but if you can find a late model, I'd highly recommend it.

I am always willing to be convinced from someone that has the data ready. That's what intelligent people do. Yes, I have known other quality "engineers" that don't have a clue.

I have been through ISO 9000 quality regimens (leading the second one) in two companies and qualified them.

I observed the short marriage between Chrysler and Mercedes Benz and have the OPINION that M-B suffered quality for it. However, there also was a culture clash and a problem in that M-B installed their own management over Chrysler departments and it didn't set well.

On the plus side, I like that Chrysler designs are very innovative and deliberately different from other company designs. Note the Prowler.

Gonzo42 wrote:
I considered Jeeps but they generally are just a bit heavier than the towing capacity of my MH.

I would have had to buy used, and as a Quality Engineer I am well aware of the poor quality culture at Chrysler Corp. A used one will probably have the new glitches ironed out. There certainly are a plethora of parts and accessories available.

We' we owned many jeep platforms and have zero problems with them. Grand Cherokee has recieved top honors multiple years in a row. Had one we drove 295,000 miles and traded it in. Two years later we heard from the second owners down in Florida that it was still going strong.

I deal with quality engineers all the time. They don't like being told their wrong, even with the data to support it.

In Canada, the Geo Tracker and the Suzuki Sidekick were made side by side on an assembly line, with some subtle differences. My Tracker is a '93, bought ten years ago with 221,000 km on it but towed "another 100,000 (62,00 miles)" according to the seller. I once unhooked the speedometer cable when it got too noisy, for about 5,000 km and it is now at 397,000 km possibly another rolling 105,000 km.. It has escaped the death-knell frame rust so far. I love to drive it short distances, but bad roads can jar the spine. The engine is still peppy, but a bit busy on 70 to 80 MPH freeways. I keep it because it is so simple, and light in weight, and a narrowish, excellent 4X4.

Gonzo42 wrote:
I considered Jeeps but they generally are just a bit heavier than the towing capacity of my MH.

I would have had to buy used, and as a Quality Engineer I am well aware of the poor quality culture at Chrysler Corp. A used one will probably have the new glitches ironed out. There certainly are a plethora of parts and accessories available.

whatever. you don't deserve a jeep.
Go buy a Japanese car....

A used 2 door wrangler TJ (2006 and older) weighs about 3200 pounds.....

One thing that I should mention is that since you DO NOT want a new vehicle to tow, watch the weather. On one of our trips, in Albuquerque, we picked up an 11 month old Chevy HHR, with less than 10,000 miles, that had suffered very MINOR hail damage. You really have to be close to the vehicle to see the dents. It was a previous Enterprise Rental car.
In any case, the vehicle had all of the remaining warranty, came fully equipped and detailed, had a sticker of close to $25,000, and we got it for $8500, out the door.
While in town we had a base plate installed at a shop and sold our Saturn to a local dealer. I always carry my titles with me.
Most areas in the country do have hail storms from time to time and if you contact the rental companies after a storm, you may be able to get a great deal.
By the way, small shallow dents like we had on our HHR can be removed with dry ice and heat, as long as there is no crease in the metal. :B

Just semi-retired a Tracker. PM me if interested.

I just bought a nice 2001 4WD Tracker in Houston for $3500; as part of searching I found many of them all over the country. Of course some were junk but most looked ok.