Forum Discussion

mtofell1's avatar
mtofell1
Explorer
Jul 13, 2016

What to expect with a new gasser

Looking at a new gas class A on the Ford F-53 Chassis and am wondering just what to expect. Would need a 5K toad which would put me up close to the GCWR of 30K. All this from a 320HP 460 Torque gas V10. 30,000# from this engine in a completely non-aerodynamic vehicle just seems to be asking a lot.

So, are we talking 30MPH up highway grades? I don't really mind that speed but at some point start to worry about just being a hazard.

With a related question - why does my 3/4 gas truck put out 410HP/430Torque with a GCWR of 19,000# while the one with 30,000# only puts out 320/460? I know higher torque is better and the gearing is better. I guess I'm just surprised coming from an HD truck w/5th wheel into a class A. On the surface I'm surprised the numbers aren't a bit higher for the heavy class A units.

And PLEASE, for the purposes of this thread, diesel fuel does not exist on this planet :) I'm strictly asking about gas for this stage of my research.
Class A

26 Replies

  • RedJeep's avatar
    RedJeep
    Explorer
    Jul 17, 2016
    I'm at about 5k miles into an 8k mile road trip. We're towing a close to 5k toad. 2002 Land Rover Discovery 2. I mostly tow in the mountains of the NW but have also towed across the US with this setup. I have the motorhome in my signature. It's likely about 2k lbs less than what you described.

    My background is multiple diesel pickups pulling trailers and FWs. I was very leery of getting a gasser. I was very leery of towing a 5k lbs toad.

    But here I sit at a campground in Texas. Zero regrets on getting my gasser. I do slow down some on the steeper grades, but can still pass the 18 wheelers. I do wind up the engine, but it's made to do that.

    I'm averaging 5.5 mpg in the mountains. 7.5 on the flats with genny running.
  • DrewE's avatar
    DrewE
    Explorer III
    Jul 17, 2016
    427435 wrote:
    SoCalDesertRider wrote:
    30,000 lbs combined weight. That's alot for a gasser, even a tuned up V10.

    I can imagine my International 4800 loaded/pulling at 30K gross, but with a V10 gas engine, producing half the torque of the 800+ lb-ft DT466E diesel that it has. Man, that would be sad cookies, on even the small hills...

    I would look for a rig built on a medium duty truck chassis, with a big inline-6 diesel.

    Good medium duty diesel engines to look for: Cummins ISC 8.3, International DT466E 7.6 and DT530E 8.7, CAT C7




    Maybe it's time for another hp vs torque discussion.

    Torque turns the wheels. Hp determines how fast they turn. :)


    Indeed. Every motorhome has a device in it that increases torque at the expense of shaft speed, with several different settings. Generally they can also be set to increase the shaft speed while providing reduced torque. This device, of course, is the transmission.

    Assuming the engines are producing similar amounts of power, the V10 would be running at twice the rpm if it is producing half the torque of the diesel engine. They'll surely sound different under the load (the V10 sounding rather more frenetic), but they'll propel one up a hill equally well assuming they have suitably matched drivetrains.

    As the V10 is naturally aspirated and most diesels are turbocharged, the gas engine will lose noticeably more of its power at high altitudes.
  • 427435's avatar
    427435
    Explorer
    Jul 14, 2016
    SoCalDesertRider wrote:
    30,000 lbs combined weight. That's alot for a gasser, even a tuned up V10.

    I can imagine my International 4800 loaded/pulling at 30K gross, but with a V10 gas engine, producing half the torque of the 800+ lb-ft DT466E diesel that it has. Man, that would be sad cookies, on even the small hills...

    I would look for a rig built on a medium duty truck chassis, with a big inline-6 diesel.

    Good medium duty diesel engines to look for: Cummins ISC 8.3, International DT466E 7.6 and DT530E 8.7, CAT C7




    Maybe it's time for another hp vs torque discussion.

    Torque turns the wheels. Hp determines how fast they turn. :)
  • jlud's avatar
    jlud
    Explorer
    Jul 14, 2016
    I have a new V10 on and a 22k chassis, towing a 2016 F150 that holds the 6 of us. No problems at all other than minor slowing on flat to medium terrain. Have not towed in mountains yet but based on experience so far I would not hesitate. I'm sure I would slow down and downshift but it's performed great so far so I would not be concerned from what I have experienced.

    Drove through some smaller mountains in Tennessee without toad and pleasantly surprised on performance.
  • mtofell1's avatar
    mtofell1
    Explorer
    Jul 14, 2016
    Do you guys running tuners ever run into problems with high exhaust temps? Did you install a gauge to monitor the temp along with the tuner?
  • SoCalDesertRid1's avatar
    SoCalDesertRid1
    Explorer II
    Jul 14, 2016
    30,000 lbs combined weight. That's alot for a gasser, even a tuned up V10.

    I can imagine my International 4800 loaded/pulling at 30K gross, but with a V10 gas engine, producing half the torque of the 800+ lb-ft DT466E diesel that it has. Man, that would be sad cookies, on even the small hills...

    I would look for a rig built on a medium duty truck chassis, with a big inline-6 diesel.

    Good medium duty diesel engines to look for: Cummins ISC 8.3, International DT466E 7.6 and DT530E 8.7, CAT C7
  • harley-dave's avatar
    harley-dave
    Explorer II
    Jul 14, 2016
    dahkota wrote:
    harley-dave wrote:
    We live in Arizona and go over these grades all the time and yes they are tough. I added a 5 Star tuner Clicky about 2 month ago. Been over those grades 3 times since going both ways and what a difference. We can pull the one at the Verde Valley and do it 58-59 mph now and that's with a 31' class C loaded to the max. I recommend it highly. And no I don't own stock.
    Dave


    After we hit 36,000 miles we will get one. That should be this winter or about when we get back to AZ. Did you do it yourself or go to a shop?
    Ordered and did it myself. All software and it took about 10 minutes. Plug the included device into the ODB2 port under the dash, select upgrade, follow the prompts and your done. What an amazing difference it makes. Like having a new rig.
    Dave
  • 427435's avatar
    427435
    Explorer
    Jul 14, 2016
    Our MH has a lot less hp than the new V10's and we pull a 5000 lb toad.

    The first real grade we climbed was I70 up to the Eisenhower Tunnel. I did pull over and had my wife drive the toad about half way up. Didn't let me drive much faster if any as the altitude increased.

    Later, coming home, we climbed up to Wolf pass east of Durango. It was slow going too-----down to low gear at times. At the top, we ran into some old friends that were headed the other way. They convinced us to turn around and spend a night with them back in the valley we had just climbed out of.

    The next day, facing the same climb again, I let the wife drive the toad. Very little difference in the speed and gears needed. I've never unhooked to climb a mountain again.

    And there were others not climbing any faster. Just enjoy the scenery-------you'll get to the top.
  • mtofell1's avatar
    mtofell1
    Explorer
    Jul 14, 2016
    Thanks everyone.... I appreciate all the GREAT info provided.

    The 5K toad is really more like 4500# and it's a Honda Odyssey minivan which is needed for the kids. Again, I'm still in the very early planning stages and could always get a lighter vehicle if needed. For now I'm doing okay with my 5th wheel and truck. My wife and kids just hate the driving. I'm realizing if I ever want to really get out and cover some ground I'll need to go to a class A.
  • barmcd's avatar
    barmcd
    Explorer
    Jul 14, 2016
    dahkota wrote:
    We have taken our F53 over the Rockies, Sierras, Appalachians, Cascades, and all over Alaska. We run at about 26K lbs. Yes, we slow down a bit, especially on very long grades, but we get there. Our two worst experiences so far:

    In the Brooks Range on the Dalton Highway we hit a section dubbed, "The Roller Coaster." The day we hit it, it was a muddy unpaved 12 percent grade mess going up. We were more afraid, if we got going too slow, that we would slide off the side of the road and into the very deep ditches. We made the top, chugging along at a quick 20 MPH. We also picked up about 200 lbs of mud between the toad and the bus.

    Around Verde Valley in Arizona, on Route 17 between Phoenix and Flagstaff, there are some very long grades. We have done them both ways, a few times, and they are a slog when going up. Near the end, we are dragging butt at around 35 MPH, but so are the trucks so we always have company. Going down never seems to be a problem.


    I'm impressed you took a motor home up the Dalton Highway. That road will rattle your teeth in a pick up truck.

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