Bud just had anothe seizure

colliehauler wrote:


So I might of made a mistake getting the good dog food ? Going from Pedigree to Taste of Wild.

Oh - I'm not saying that..... a good dog food without dyes is a good thing, especially if dog foods could be suspects in triggering seizures. But when many people have implied that low blood sugar, as a result of experiencing a seizure, can cause other seizures.... as a casual observer, I'd want my dog to have a consistent blood sugar level. And from a nutritional standpoint, one accomplishes that with complex carbs. It's why marathon runners "carb up" before a race.

And IMO, the easiest complex carb to feed (plus seems to be one with few allergic ties) is oats. You put a packet in a bowl, add water, zap it in the microwave for 30 seconds or so - let it cool, and you have a nice doggie breakfast. (In Ike's case, because I was trying to up his calorie intake, I'd add an egg to be scrambled in) The nice part is that if you find it makes no difference - it has done no harm. And if nothing else, as the dog ages, I found that in Ike's case, it really brought back "his old self" for several hours. He'd be funny and playful (in short spurts, of course) and would be sociable for most of the morning. And again, this is just my opinion and experience with one dog - because he got a bit of exercise during the day, he slept well at night (no pacing).

I used to have seizure dogs. I had heard of the Breyer's vanilla ice cream, but never heard of the honey thing. I'm definitely going to put a note about that in my med box for the dogs. Thankfully no need for it at this time, but one never knows what life will send down our paths.

I only had one who had grand mal seizures, and they would cluster. I had to keep injectible valium here to bring him out of them. Luckily he did not have them very often.

I had two boys who had petite mal seizures. They had them frequently enough to go on meds. Our vet had suggested potassium bromide, compounded in a liquid. They went on that around 3 years of age and both lived a full life with no side effects. I think the one was 14 and the other just about 17 when we lost them.

I had one dog that an emergency vet tried to put on phenobarb when she had her first seizure. She went berserk - it had the opposite effect on her, so we took her off of it. WEnt back to my regular vet, and we determined she did not need it. She only seized about once every 2 to 3 yrs, so not so bad.

One thing to keep in mind, some food can trigger seizures. I have a friend who had a 5 yr old dog who never seized. She started having seizures. Started slowly and within two weeks, it went from one seizure a day to multiple seizures daily and increased in intensity. She kept trying to think what changed, and she finally decided that she had recently changed dog food. So she stopped that food and went to something else. The seizures stopped and the dog never had another one.

I will say that we had a totally normal dog until the day we found a laser pointer in a drawer and tried it with the dogs. Bailey wasn't interested, but Neal thought it great fun to chase the red light. Neal had mobility problems unrelated to anything else and we thought it was a way for him to get a little exercise. Within 8 hours after playing with the pointer, he had his first seizure. They continued for almost 10 years after that.

Please don't buy those laser pointers for your pets. They sell them in the pet stores too. Maybe they aren't all affected by them, but with Neal, something just snapped in his brain. I liken it to strobe lights and those with epilepsy. They are said to trigger seizures.

It was a terrible affliction for all of us and to think we caused it was beyond grief for me. We all love our pets so much and I really hated myself for that.

Dale

Yeah, like rockhillmanor says, honey doesn't stop a seizure and the low blood sugar is generally the result of a seizure not the cause of the original one. I never had trouble dosing with an oral syringe though. They are short and fat and have a larger opening making it easy to draw the honey into the syringe. My vet gave me several. I would put it in Neal's mouth and push the plunger in slowly so he could eat it as I squirted it. He loved the honey. But I never gave it till the original seizure was over. Neal would be so wiped out and just lay there with his eyes open. After about 15 minutes he would lift his head and attempt to get up. That's when I would dose him and take him out. We always let the seizure runs its course. At his worst, he was having gran mal seizures, then clustering with as many as 13 gran mal seizures in 24 hours. Then it would take a week for him to recover and then it would restart 3 weeks later. He went on pheno and then potassium bromide and would still have break through seizures. Once we start getting his blood sugar up after a seizure the clusters all but stopped and we were able to manage him much better. He lived for another 10 years eventually stopping the seizures altogether.

My son uses the glucose tubes for his dog. They are expensive, but if that works better for you, that's great. I just think it's a good thing to try.

Dale

rockhillmanor wrote:

colliehauler wrote:
Bud woke me up this morning at 3:30 doing his whine and pacing. I got up and gave him a little honey and 1/4 pill of the pheno... Bud grabbed the table and my arm instead of the toy...

Did your vet prescribe to administer the phenobarb when you think he is going to seize??

It is normally prescribed to be given once a day same time everyday to build a certain therapeutic level in the blood stream to prevent seizures from breaking thru. I never heard of it given to prevent one when you think one is coming.

Him being disoriented can be another sign he is getting to much phenobarb. Which if you gave him his daily does and then gave him the additional 1/4 tab he would be getting too much.

Most dogs seize, need a short time to recover from all the exhausting body reaction (which is 'when', administering glucose helps) and then they are off running like nothing happened.

Honey does NOT 'prevent' seizures.

Unless it is required to be given if a dog is uncontrollable diabetic, hypoglycemic and other disorders like that where they can't regulate their insulin / glucose levels which can result in a seizure.

A seizure dog can regulate their glucose it just gets depleted 'during' a seizure.

Off his food, whining and pacing symptoms just don't seem to fit the usual seizure dog not related to a brain tumor.

Most act pretty normal and then bam they seize and then go about their normal activities. IMHO I would dig a little deeper into finding out what is causing those symptoms. Have you had a urine sample tested?

All the above is just given as food for thought for you. I just hope he gets better and gets back to feeling like his old self. :C

No Bud gets 1/2 tablet a day. I give him 1/4 in the morning and 1/4 in the evening.

colliehauler wrote:
Bud woke me up this morning at 3:30 doing his whine and pacing. I got up and gave him a little honey and 1/4 pill of the pheno... Bud grabbed the table and my arm instead of the toy...

Did your vet prescribe to administer the phenobarb when you think he is going to seize??

It is normally prescribed to be given once a day same time everyday to build a certain therapeutic level in the blood stream to prevent seizures from breaking thru. I never heard of it given to prevent one when you think one is coming.

Him being disoriented can be another sign he is getting to much phenobarb. Which if you gave him his daily does and then gave him the additional 1/4 tab he would be getting too much.

Most dogs seize, need a short time to recover from all the exhausting body reaction (which is 'when', administering glucose helps) and then they are off running like nothing happened.

Honey does NOT 'prevent' seizures.

Unless it is required to be given if a dog is uncontrollable diabetic, hypoglycemic and other disorders like that where they can't regulate their insulin / glucose levels which can result in a seizure.

A seizure dog can regulate their glucose it just gets depleted 'during' a seizure.

Off his food, whining and pacing symptoms just don't seem to fit the usual seizure dog not related to a brain tumor.

Most act pretty normal and then bam they seize and then go about their normal activities. IMHO I would dig a little deeper into finding out what is causing those symptoms. Have you had a urine sample tested?

All the above is just given as food for thought for you. I just hope he gets better and gets back to feeling like his old self. :C

So sorry that Bud is going thru this...hopefully with the new diet and meds his seizures will be controlled...

BCSnob wrote:

rockhillmanor wrote:


.......So-called "ivermectin" sensitivity is actually sensitivity to a broad class of compounds due to a basic defect in the blood-brain barrier.
http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.php?showtopic=4966

Wow, something I posted was actually useful.

I hope you can get things under control with Bud

Thanks

rockhillmanor wrote:


.......So-called "ivermectin" sensitivity is actually sensitivity to a broad class of compounds due to a basic defect in the blood-brain barrier.
http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.php?showtopic=4966

Wow, something I posted was actually useful.

I hope you can get things under control with Bud

Deb and Ed M wrote:

Scottiemom wrote:

The theory behind this, and no vet told me. . . I learned this online through canine angels, is that the seizure to a dog is like running a marathon. It depletes their blood sugar which is what causes the cluster seizures. Giving them the honey will almost immediately replenish their blood sugar and bring them into the normal range.

I have never had to deal with this - but if low blood sugar can cause other seizures, I think I'd try to keep the blood sugar levels stabilized. The easiest way to do that is with complex carbs. I found that in Ike's last year, he displayed confusion unless he had enough carbs to keep his brain working clearly. He had oatmeal for breakfast every day - and it made a dramatic difference in his demeanor.

Unfortunately, the "good" dog food generally has fewer carbs (or none) - and if I remember correctly, Colliehauler's Bud tends toward "thin" anyway, so one would presume that higher fats and proteins (higher-calorie foods) would be the way to go? But for something that seems tied to blood sugar levels (and is remedied by sugar) - then maybe adding complex carbs (whole grains) is something to try?

I did get some honey in the squeeze bottle.

So I might of made a mistake getting the good dog food ? Going from Pedigree to Taste of Wild.

Bud woke me up this morning at 3:30 doing his whine and pacing. I got up and gave him a little honey and 1/4 pill of the pheno. After about a hour he laid back down so I went back to bed. This morning he is laying out on the patio. He came back in for a short while and we played a very short game of tug of war. You can tell something isn't quite right but I don't think he is in any pain. Bud grabbed the table and my arm instead of the toy.

This is kind of hard to deal with so thanks for your understanding and support.