Bud just had anothe seizure

Scottiemom wrote:

The theory behind this, and no vet told me. . . I learned this online through canine angels, is that the seizure to a dog is like running a marathon. It depletes their blood sugar which is what causes the cluster seizures. Giving them the honey will almost immediately replenish their blood sugar and bring them into the normal range.

I have never had to deal with this - but if low blood sugar can cause other seizures, I think I'd try to keep the blood sugar levels stabilized. The easiest way to do that is with complex carbs. I found that in Ike's last year, he displayed confusion unless he had enough carbs to keep his brain working clearly. He had oatmeal for breakfast every day - and it made a dramatic difference in his demeanor.

Unfortunately, the "good" dog food generally has fewer carbs (or none) - and if I remember correctly, Colliehauler's Bud tends toward "thin" anyway, so one would presume that higher fats and proteins (higher-calorie foods) would be the way to go? But for something that seems tied to blood sugar levels (and is remedied by sugar) - then maybe adding complex carbs (whole grains) is something to try?

Scottiemom wrote:
I had a seizure dog, Neal. His started when we used a laser pointer for him to play. . . . enough of that.

Here is a way that may help snap him out of the stupor of the seizure.

Once the seizure is over and he attempts to sit up. . . use an oral syringe (the vet has them) and give him honey. You will have to experiment with the dose. My Neal was about 24 pounds and required 3 syringes full of honey. After dosing him with honey, we took him outside. In just a couple minutes he would pee and poop. In about 2 hours he would be back to normal. Without the honey he would cluster with seizures and his ordeal would last 24 hours and take a week to recover. . . only to repeat it all in 3 weeks. The honey stopped that completely. A couple times he would have one repeat seizure and we would dose him again, but that would be it. He still took antiseizure drugs, phenobarbitol and sodium bromide.

The theory behind this, and no vet told me. . . I learned this online through canine angels, is that the

seizure to a dog is like running a marathon. It depletes their blood sugar which is what causes the cluster seizures. Giving them the honey will almost immediately replenish their blood sugar and bring them into the normal range.

The websites I used said to use Breyers all natural ice cream. Can't keep that in the motorhome and we full time. So I thought peanut butter, but that is problematic and not as quick. My niece is a nurse practitioner and she suggested the honey. It has a long shelf life and is easy to administer and Neal loved it. It was easy for him to swallow.

Most seizures have no known cause so we are left to deal with the sordid effects ourselves with our beloved pet. The honey won't stop the main seizures, but will help alleviate the clusters that result from the drop in blood sugar. It doesn't mean the dog is diabetic. . . it is just this seizure that causes this problem.

It's simple, effective, and you've got nothing to lose by trying it. I hope it helps your dog. Dale

X2

I will just add that I started out with honey also. It is hard to administer honey on observing the onset and/or during the seizure. Which I try to do to help shorten the episode, prevent second one, and quicker recovery. Otherwise I give it immediately after. Honey just doesn't work well with a syringe.

I then found that using glucose was much easier. Less is needed and works immediately.

RV'ing with a seizure dog takes a little bit of planning. You need everything at hand pre-loaded so you can get to it 'quickly'.

Pulling off the road in a MH suddenly to attend to a dog seizing and fumbling thru cabinets just wasn't working for me. There had to be a better way.

I found this product works well. And I tried them all before finding this one!

It is a gel and in a tube that 'also' acts as a syringe for real ease of getting it into the dog quickly even if the seizure has already started. Works faster than honey.

Hope this info helps anyone that has a seizure dog. It is sold at Walgreens. If it is not on the shelf ask the pharmacist he will order it for you and it will be there with a day or so for pick up.

Insta Glucose



My guy has a special denim zippered bag velcro'd on the MH dinette table that contains his Insta Glucose and a pre-loaded syringe of Valium. He never goes anywhere with out it.:C

I had a seizure dog, Neal. His started when we used a laser pointer for him to play. . . . enough of that.

Here is a way that may help snap him out of the stupor of the seizure.

Once the seizure is over and he attempts to sit up. . . use an oral syringe (the vet has them) and give him honey. You will have to experiment with the dose. My Neal was about 24 pounds and required 3 syringes full of honey. After dosing him with honey, we took him outside. In just a couple minutes he would pee and poop. In about 2 hours he would be back to normal. Without the honey he would cluster with seizures and his ordeal would last 24 hours and take a week to recover. . . only to repeat it all in 3 weeks. The honey stopped that completely. A couple times he would have one repeat seizure and we would dose him again, but that would be it. He still took antiseizure drugs, phenobarbitol and sodium bromide.

The theory behind this, and no vet told me. . . I learned this online through canine angels, is that the seizure to a dog is like running a marathon. It depletes their blood sugar which is what causes the cluster seizures. Giving them the honey will almost immediately replenish their blood sugar and bring them into the normal range.

The websites I used said to use Breyers all natural ice cream. Can't keep that in the motorhome and we full time. So I thought peanut butter, but that is problematic and not as quick. My niece is a nurse practitioner and she suggested the honey. It has a long shelf life and is easy to administer and Neal loved it. It was easy for him to swallow.

Most seizures have no known cause so we are left to deal with the sordid effects ourselves with our beloved pet. The honey won't stop the main seizures, but will help alleviate the clusters that result from the drop in blood sugar. It doesn't mean the dog is diabetic. . . it is just this seizure that causes this problem.

It's simple, effective, and you've got nothing to lose by trying it. I hope it helps your dog.

Dale

....Collies and collie mixes may have a higher susceptibility to adverse reactions. Studies find that taking a normal dose has no effect, but collies given a higher than normal dose did begin to show signs of seizures....vetmed/heartworm meds.

You posted a while back that he stopped eating.

Has his weight changed that maybe that heart worm dose he is on (that is usually given at the too high end to begin with) is now too high for his current body weight, compounding the fact of him having the collie mutation making him unable to withstand the heartworm meds?

colliehauler wrote:
I gave Bud Sentinel the 6th and he did not have a seizure until the 14th. He had his shots on the 6th as well. Last month he had his Sentinel on the 1st and had his seizure the 10th. He has been on Sentinel for years, I stop during winter......

Collies have problems with crossing the brain barrier and well "known problems" with Sentinel.

Here is just a bit of info.
It has to do with a mutation in Collies and the research is ongoing to identify the mutation.

Collies can not tolerate the Milbemycin oxim and it crosses the brain barrier if they have the mutation.

Sentinel Flavor Tabs ... Each tablet is formulated to provide a minimum of 0.23 mg/pound (0.5 mg/kg) of milbemycin oxime

......A rising-dose safety study conducted in rough-coated collies manifested a clinical reaction consisting of ataxia, pyrexia and periodic recumbency in one of fourteen dogs treated with milbemycin oxime...Milbemycin oxim..

.......So-called "ivermectin" sensitivity is actually sensitivity to a broad class of compounds due to a basic defect in the blood-brain barrier.
http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.php?showtopic=4966

......Collie owners have long known that ivermectin in the treatment of helminths and mites can result in death of some Collies. Until the mutation and its frequency were discovered, the inconsistency in toxic reaction within the breed caused some confusion. Now we know that approximately 30% of collies are homozygous for the mutation, and these are the Collies particularly at risk. Because a commercial test is now available, purebred Collies should be genetically tested before administering any drug that is a P-glycoprotein substrate in high doses

Sensitivity of Collies to certain pharmaceuticals, in particular for treatment of heartworm and mites (ivermectin), is now known to be caused by a genetic defect in the mechanism that prevents drugs from building up in the brain.
This mutation is recessive and is called mdr1-1?. The normal gene that protects the brain is called MDR1.
A test for this mutation is now commercially available.
Research shows that 1 in 3 or 4 Collies in the U.S. is "pure" for the mutation. These Collies suffer acute and often fatal neurotoxicosis when certain drugs are administered at high doses in treatment and prevention of heartworm, and this may also apply to other ailments (see below).

. http://www.awca.net/drug.htm ==THIS is the best link for information on Collies.

.....Studies have shown that the Collie breed and other herding dog breeds may be more sensitive to elevated levels of Milbemycin and more likely to have adverse reactions including coma and death. If you are concerned, discuss the safety of Milbemycin with your veterinarian. Some forms of Milbemycin are flavored with pork extracts and may cause a food allergy in sensitive pets.
http://www.petmd.com/pet-medication/sentinel

It might just be the Sentinel. The vets should have known about not giving those to a Collie breed, and it's been my experience they ALWAYS want to dose on the UP side of what the dogs weight is. Which in the case of a Collie would be real serious and could be the cause of his seizures.

I'll get you a phone number of an AKC Collie breeder that can help you.

I gave Bud Sentinel the 6th and he did not have a seizure until the 14th. He had his shots on the 6th as well. Last month he had his Sentinel on the 1st and had his seizure the 10th. He has been on Sentinel for years, I stop during winter.

Did wash all their beds tonight in scent and dye free detergent. He had a half a Phenobarbital tonight and is asleep.

I will hope for a better day tomorrow.

Bud's blood work all came back normal.

colliehauler wrote:
I will talk to the vet today and look for some food that does not have red dye corn or wheat in it. I know tractor supply has Blue Buffalo and Taste of the Wild along with there own high end brand. Hope to not have to put him on Phenobarbital. I will check with the vet on the Valium. And I will pick up some honey. Thanks for the info on Rescue Remedy I don't want to add to the problem.I hate auto correct on Android.

Bud seems fine this morning and slept well after his 9:50 seizure last night.

The only chemical I've used in the house and seasonal is Febreze and that was a week before the seizure. I will get some dye and sent free laundry detergent and rewash their dog beds.

I realize that if it turns out to be a brain tumor that there is nothing that I can do and will put him on Phenobarbital if they increase.

I did get Bud his shots for the year Monday and gave him his heartworm preventative.

Please read up on these two regarding seizures.

This also would be one big red flag for me.

How many shots were given at one time?

There is actually one new heartworm on the market that actually states on the TV commercial causes seizures in dogs that have them or dogs prone to them and warns not to give their product. I think it's called Quest????? Do you use topical flea treatment?

You said the last seizure was 5 weeks ago. Was that around the same time you gave heartworm?

Seizures don't always happen minutes after exposure hence forth why the charting of them helps.

Is it the border collie that is having the seizure? Which are on the list for hereditary propensities for them. So they may not be having them but would be on the list for 'not' giving any med that can cause them.

I almost lost 2 dogs after giving them Sentinel. Each dog is different where their immune system is at/breed and what will give them seizures. All heartworm meds have a warning regarding seizures. I had to go thru 4 brands before I found one that didn't try and kill them.

Again any of my advice and experience is based on external issues causing seizures not for an underlying medical problem. Diabetes, liver, kidney problems, etc can cause them too in some dogs.

I always read or ask if a drug or shot crosses the brain barrier.(my laymen s' term)

Also BTW. Febreeze is a BIG problem for many people and dogs. I have life threatening asthma attacks if I even walk into a room where that stuff has been used. IMHO the worst product ever put on the market I call it the silent killer cause sometimes you don't put two and two together.

I have to read read read labels on everything to make sure that that dang stuff is not in anything I buy to use for me or around the dog. They are now even starting to put it in laundry soap. :R:R

My seizure dog is on Blue Buffalo Regular Chicken/Rice. When you go to buy the honey try and find a 'local' organic honey. Dog specialty stores usually carry it. It has proven properties to help with many different issues. Instead of the fake stuff in the teddy bear plastic bottle! :W

Fingers and paws closed here that the seizures stop and it is nothing real serious. :C

My heart is breaking that you (and others) have to go through this.... prayers that this gets resolved easily (((HUG)))

I'm so sorry about Bud. Our "kids" sure make us worry. Our Maggie will be 11 in December and she is starting the night restlessness that sometimes comes with old age.

The vet thought it best to put Bud on Phenobarbital. He did a blood work up again and everything was normal.