I had a run in with a real jerk this weekend at Birch Bay state CG in Washington state. He would walk his dog, a large full grown German Shepard mix, around the park and and jerk his narrow leather collar (not a harness), so hard the dog would be jerked off its feet and land on it's side or back. He did this by walking by the dog and then stopping while the dog continued on. Then he would brace himself and jerk backwards as hard as he could. The dog would let out a yelp like I've only heard when someone steps on their paw or hurts them in some similar way.I called him out on it and told him to knock it off or I'll call the cops. He said "go ahead" but then thought twice about it and tried to tell me he was a "trainer". I told him he was a liar and that no professional trainer would do such a thing. Every time he addressed the dog it would cower and put its ears back. The dog was terrified of him. The dog was also perfectly behaved.I'm not a violent person (haven't been in a fight since Jr high) but I wanted to knock this cowards head off. I think I got the message across though as I didn't hear him hurt the dog again.I did tell the Ranger but nothing became of it.So was I wrong somehow? I cant see how such abuse is ever acceptable but I'd like to hear your thoughts.PS, it still makes my blood boil to think about it.

That poor dog. How sad. I'm glad you said something. Some people have no business having a dog or any animal. I'm not sure I could have kept my cool.

You should have recorded his actions and then called the police.Thanks for standing up for an abused animal.The guy was a jerk (I'm being polite).You did the right thing.

Yes, you did the right thing. I admire you for standing up to him and saying something for the poor dog's sake.

There was a training method that was very popular back in the 60's that employed methods similar to what you describe. Most veterinary behaviorists believe that the methods employed with these techniques are not the best way to achieve a balanced, well socialized trained dog. Unfortunately, many trainers have not modified their methods and still employ these methods.Wikipedia wrote:Koehler methodStrictly following the model set out in the Koehler Method of Dog Training, some 50 years later, the Koehler method continues to be taught in both class and private training formats. The method is based in the philosophy that a dog acts on its right to choose its actions. Koehler explained that a dog's learned behavior is an act of choice based on its own learning experience. When those choices are influenced by the expectation of reward, the behavior will most likely be repeated, and when those choices are influenced by the anticipation of punishment, they will most likely cease. Once the dog has learned that its choices result in comfort or discomfort it can be taught to make the correct decisions. Action?Memory?Desire encapsulates the learning pattern used by the method; the dog acts, remembers the consequences, and forms the desire to repeat or avoid those consequences. Adherents believe that once the behavior has been correctly taught, it should be performed, thus making any correction, fair, reasonable, and expected.[57] While the model has been used consistently since 1962, some of the punishment procedures described in the book are now not considered necessary, humane, or appropriate by many trainers.[23]

We should always standup for those who can't for themselves. Good for you. I am afraid the second time he did that I would have tried to step.

Dog abuser | Good Sam Community

colliehauler
Explorer III
Jun 22, 2015
gbopp wrote:
You should have recorded his actions and then called the police.
Thanks for standing up for an abused animal.
The guy was a jerk (I'm being polite).
You did the right thing.
This is what I would do as well. In Kansas animal abuse is a felony.

Thanks for saying something.
4X4Dodger
Explorer II
Jun 22, 2015
Well I am a dog lover all my life and have always had a dog except when in the service.

But in this case I have to say that while I don't like the behaviour of the dog handler described, it really was not any of your business.

You would have been hard pressed to convince any reasonable law enforcement person that the behavior described was truly abusive. In fact claiming that diminishes the truly horrible cases of abuse by stretching the meaning of the word beyond reason.

Everyone now days seems to think it their God Given right to interject themselves into others lives under the most flimsy of pretenses.

Now if the dog had really been in distress, being beaten with a stick or kicked...there, I believe, the line has been crossed and some action justified.

But this ever increasing tendency in this country for people to feel that it's their "duty" to control the actions of others simply because we don't like them is disturbing and will have consequences that many dog lovers don't want when turned on them by people who dont like or want dogs around.
GMandJM
Explorer
Jun 22, 2015
Thanks for standing up to the jerk. He really should not be allowed to "train" his dog like that.

Sadly, in the late 80's, that method of training was being taught and classes - along with use of a pinch collar. The instructor said to "Plant your feet, let your dog get to the end of the leash and pull back as hard as you can". Ugh.

I saw dogs literally fly through the air they were jerked so hard.

The instructor called me a "pansy" when I couldn't do that to my much-loved, unruly, stubborn-as a-stump Dalmatian, so I found another instructor.

Again, thank you for letting him know this is not acceptable.

(this was posted by jHalf, btw. I doubt the above-mentioned instructor would have had the cajones to call gHalf a pansy)
rexlion
Explorer
Jun 22, 2015
Too bad we can't put guys like that on a leash with neck collar, and re-train them.
pennysmom09
Explorer
Jun 22, 2015
4X4Dodger wrote:
Well I am a dog lover all my life and have always had a dog except when in the service.

But in this case I have to say that while I don't like the behaviour of the dog handler described, it really was not any of your business.

You would have been hard pressed to convince any reasonable law enforcement person that the behavior described was truly abusive. In fact claiming that diminishes the truly horrible cases of abuse by stretching the meaning of the word beyond reason.

Everyone now days seems to think it their God Given right to interject themselves into others lives under the most flimsy of pretenses.

Now if the dog had really been in distress, being beaten with a stick or kicked...there, I believe, the line has been crossed and some action justified.

But this ever increasing tendency in this country for people to feel that it's their "duty" to control the actions of others simply because we don't like them is disturbing and will have consequences that many dog lovers don't want when turned on them by people who dont like or want dogs around.

The dog WAS in distress, the jerk,was causing pain. It is our duty to step up when a child or an animal is being hurt or a used. No dog lover could watch such behavior and say that it was legal,or acceptable.
pa_traveler
Explorer
Jun 23, 2015
Feel bad for that dog ,imagine if he had a good owner would really be glad to be away from that jerk.
myredracer
Explorer II
Jun 28, 2015
Phone the ASPCA and/or local animal control dept. and file a complaint. Take a photo or video with your phone if you can as evidence.

No dog should ever be treated like that. There are better ways to train a dog than that approach.

About 10 years ago I used to have a very hyperactive and unruly Springer Spaniel. I went to a dog trainer that our vet recommended and the guy was an ex military dog trainer from S. Africa or England. He had a similar approach which was rather abusive and offensive to me. Never went back.

Good on you for standing up for an animal who is being mistreated.
Uppercrust
Explorer
Jun 29, 2015
Good for you standing up. There are other ways like a head halter or anti pull harness he could of been using.
Deb_and_Ed_M
Explorer II
Jun 30, 2015
Thank you for being the voice of the voiceless.

IMO, there's a HUGE difference between giving the leash a quick snap to bring the dog's attention to you - and flipping the dog over. And quite frankly, doing something like that in as public a place as a campground shows that the REAL idiot is on the "looped end of the leash"
Farmerjon
Explorer
Jul 01, 2015
Deb and Ed M wrote:
Thank you for being the voice of the voiceless.

IMO, there's a HUGE difference between giving the leash a quick snap to bring the dog's attention to you - and flipping the dog over. And quite frankly, doing something like that in as public a place as a campground shows that the REAL idiot is on the "looped end of the leash"

x2
while attending my 1st obedience class in 1969 we were taught to give a quick snap on the leash to stop the dog but even on small dogs it was not enough to move the dog, certainly not enough to knock a dog over.
Had we been there it would have been my wife that would have been the 1st to say something and she would have had my full support. The woman confronting him is not as likely to provoke a fight and my standing beside her tends to keep things civil.

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