Thought you should know

rockhillmanor wrote:
It is to LIMIT the "number of dogs registered per owner per stud dog". The DNA tests are to prevent fraud.

Where on the AKC website does it state the intention was to limit the number of dogs registered per owner per stud dog? As far as I can tell from AKC: Frequently Used Sires Requirement the intention is to limit fraud in the AKC registry. I see no mention in the AKC website about limiting the number of dogs registered per stud.

...every sire producing seven or more litters in a lifetime or producing more than three litters in a calendar year must be 'AKC DNA Profiled.' These DNA profiles will be used for genetic identity and for parentage verification, and, thus, will be used to advance issues relating to the integrity of the registry.

The only way this new rule could limit the number of dogs registered to one stud is if the owner of the stud was not willing to spend the $35 on the DNA test kit.

Deb and Ed M wrote:

But it IS related to puppy mills since most of the puppy mill dogs are AKC registered - or at least advertised that way.

Precisely!!

Or "CKC" or whatever other registration entity. There really isn't a "kennel club" that does much to help regulate anything where puppy mills or back yard breeders are concerned. If the paperwork looks good the dogs are registered and so it goes.....

:(

rockhillmanor wrote:


I do not judge anyone whether they use/like AKC or not.
It is entirely up to the individual and what hobby they participate in. Which is not related to the subject matter at hand of puppy mills.

But it IS related to puppy mills since most of the puppy mill dogs are AKC registered - or at least advertised that way.

BCSnob wrote:
.. I don't really care what the AKC has done to limit fraud in its stud books considering how much effort it has spent on facilitating the registration of pups from very high volume breeders/brokers like Hunte Corp (about 90,000 puppies per year)..

The 'new' rules are NOT related to stud books/fraud. (BTW true stud books are only found in pure bred horse registries). It is to LIMIT the number of dogs registered per owner per stud dog. The DNA tests are to prevent fraud. Unscrupulously breeders that falsify records to go around it are caught when they request the dna of the "pups". If it doesn't match it stops brokers dead in their tracks.

I do not judge anyone whether they use/like AKC or not.
It is entirely up to the individual and what hobby they participate in. Which is not related to the subject matter at hand of puppy mills.

The new rules that have been put in place WILL affect high volume brokers. Is that not what all of us want to see happen? IMHO Each small step to help irradiate puppy mills by whatever organization is a step in the right direction.

Code2High wrote:
Even if it is wrong, even if there are unintended consequences, it is a step in the right direction because it is a STEP. You can't fix anything if you never take the first step. Failures and course corrections are a natural part of any problem solving process.

X2 I'm with you Susan........at least they are trying to do something about it.


Thanks for posting Dr. Doug.

Even if it is wrong, even if there are unintended consequences, it is a step in the right direction because it is a STEP. You can't fix anything if you never take the first step. Failures and course corrections are a natural part of any problem solving process.

We don't register our dogs with the AKC; we do not financially support the AKC in any way. We do not agree with breed standards based upon looks. I agree with our registry's policy to de register any dog that gets a show champion title. I don't really care what the AKC has done to limit fraud in its stud books considering how much effort it has spent on facilitating the registration of pups from very high volume breeders/brokers like Hunte Corp (about 90,000 puppies per year).

People who breed and sell from their home where buyers come to their home will fall under the retail store exemption, according to our registry's lawyer based upon the posted rules and the conference call where the USDA discussed the new rules. Backyard breeders who do not ship dogs will be exempt. The rules were not well written and will be hard to enforce, unless the breeder has a website or the USDA has received complaints.

BCSnob wrote:
This is from the new rules.

Retail pet store means a place of business or residence at which the seller, buyer, and the
animal available for sale are physically present so that every buyer may personally observe the
animal prior to purchasing and/or taking custody of that animal after purchase, and where only
the following animals are sold or offered for sale, at retail, for use as pets: Dogs, cats, rabbits,
guinea pigs, hamsters, gerbils, rats, mice, gophers, chinchillas, domestic ferrets, domestic farm
animals, birds, and coldblooded species. In addition to persons that meet these criteria, retail pet
store also includes any person who meets the criteria in § 2.1(a)(3)(vii) of this subchapter. Such
definition excludes—
(1) Establishments or persons who deal in dogs used for hunting, security, or breeding
purposes;
(2) Establishments or persons, except those that meet the criteria in § 2.1(a)(3)(vii),
exhibiting, selling, or offering to exhibit or sell any wild or exotic or other nonpet species of
warmblooded animals (except birds), such as skunks, raccoons, nonhuman primates, squirrels,
ocelots, foxes, coyotes, etc.;
(3) Any establishment or person selling warmblooded animals (except birds, and
laboratory rats and mice) for research or exhibition purposes;
(4) Any establishment wholesaling any animals (except birds, rats, and mice); and
(5) Any establishment exhibiting pet animals in a room that is separate from or adjacent
to the retail pet store, or in an outside area, or anywhere off the retail pet store premises.

This means people who breed and sell from their home where the buyers come to their home to see the pups will be exempt from the new rules, unless they ship pups at the point of sale then they cannot exceed the 4 females that can be bred. The rules are geared to control breeders who sell over the Internet and ship the pup such that the buyer never has the opportunity to see the pups, the other dogs, and the kennel in person.

This was a lawyer's take on these rules after reading the rules and listening to the USDA conference call.

http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.php?showtopic=35539&p=448210

These new rules may push more working Border Collies breeders (and other working dog breeders) to not sell to pet homes.

Yes and it's not just the working breeds, it has affected all breeds and owners who compete.

AKC has cracked down also to help prevent back yard breeders who know they can make more money if their dogs are registered.

Mark if you register your dogs you are already aware of the constraints AKC has imposed. Register a certain number of dogs under one stud dog and DNA is requested etc etc etc. too long to go into all the particulars. What they have put in place was directed to and will affect the backyard breeder who sells out of the home and who registers.

The tightening up has caused a lot of hardship to others outside the parameters of puppy mills. Just like the breed ban whirl wind that got out of control this is going to affect the sport of dogs too. Collateral damage.:(

It still will help shut down the puppy millers who sell dogs on the internet, the unscrupulous sellers that sell them under the guise of a shelter/rescue. This will allow USDA to request full disclosure from the internet provider to go after them and give them authority to go onto their property is found in violation on the internet. They could not do this before.

If it stops just one of these websites where they picture the puppy mill dog on a bed with a little girl saying they are loving home raised, and if it stops one person from being deceived that they are 'rescuing' a dog from a shelter when in fact it is not, I know I will be happy.

When people finally got it that pet stores where selling puppy mill dogs the millers lost their main outlet for sales. The millers then turned to the internet and their sales where booming. This should put a dent into their profits once again. If we consistently work at cutting off their venue for making money more and more will go out of business like so many did when the pet stores stopped buying from them.

This is from the new rules.

Retail pet store means a place of business or residence at which the seller, buyer, and the
animal available for sale are physically present so that every buyer may personally observe the
animal prior to purchasing and/or taking custody of that animal after purchase, and where only
the following animals are sold or offered for sale, at retail, for use as pets: Dogs, cats, rabbits,
guinea pigs, hamsters, gerbils, rats, mice, gophers, chinchillas, domestic ferrets, domestic farm
animals, birds, and coldblooded species. In addition to persons that meet these criteria, retail pet
store also includes any person who meets the criteria in § 2.1(a)(3)(vii) of this subchapter. Such
definition excludes—
(1) Establishments or persons who deal in dogs used for hunting, security, or breeding
purposes;
(2) Establishments or persons, except those that meet the criteria in § 2.1(a)(3)(vii),
exhibiting, selling, or offering to exhibit or sell any wild or exotic or other nonpet species of
warmblooded animals (except birds), such as skunks, raccoons, nonhuman primates, squirrels,
ocelots, foxes, coyotes, etc.;
(3) Any establishment or person selling warmblooded animals (except birds, and
laboratory rats and mice) for research or exhibition purposes;
(4) Any establishment wholesaling any animals (except birds, rats, and mice); and
(5) Any establishment exhibiting pet animals in a room that is separate from or adjacent
to the retail pet store, or in an outside area, or anywhere off the retail pet store premises.

This means people who breed and sell from their home where the buyers come to their home to see the pups will be exempt from the new rules, unless they ship pups at the point of sale then they cannot exceed the 4 females that can be bred. The rules are geared to control breeders who sell over the Internet and ship the pup such that the buyer never has the opportunity to see the pups, the other dogs, and the kennel in person.

This was a lawyer's take on these rules after reading the rules and listening to the USDA conference call.

http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.php?showtopic=35539&p=448210

These new rules may push more working Border Collies breeders (and other working dog breeders) to not sell to pet homes.

dturm wrote:
USDA strengthening federal authority over online pet sales

This is going to make it more difficult for back yard breeder and puppy mills to avoid the regulations in place.

YEA!

IMHO some are missing the point about how great this is, is the fact that licensed puppy mills are USING the INTERNET to skirt the rules, and no one could touch them. Which is why they do it.

Up till know the USDA could do nothing about the 'internet sales'. Which is why the puppy mills that do have a license rushed in mass and been disguising themselves on the internet.

Anyone can find out if a seller is a licensed puppy mill in disguise on the internet with 2 clicks. The USDA has known this and know who they were but their hands were tied, now with this new clarification of the regulations they can legally go in and get them. They will also be able to pursue the un licensed puppy mills selling on the internet too.

THIS is what is the important step in this new regulation that will stop internet sales by puppy mills
....""announced that it has

revised the definition of "retail pet store" within the Animal Welfare Act

to prevent many breeders selling pets online from sidestepping APHIS licensing requirements and inspections.....

This is a VERY GOOD thing. By defining internet sales to be as the same as retail sales gives USDA the powers to regulate the internet sales. This will stop the sales of millions of puppy mill dogs on the internet probably within the first year! Double YEA!

Thanks for posting the info! :C