America's roads are awful!!

valhalla360 wrote:

SidecarFlip wrote:
If you want to drive on really nice smooth roads, roads like glass, I suggest the Upper Penninsula of Michigan. Roads are fantastic. You see, here in Michigan, road maintenance is based on a Lane Mile funding ratio and the UP has the most lane miles so they get the most road funding from the State.

Wrong.

The vast majority of lane miles is in the southern urban areas.

The UP benefits from two major things:
- The truck volumes are much lower. Yeah, you have some logging and other things but not even close to what a lane on an urban freeway sees to the south.
- The other is far less freeze/thaw. The UP generally has a short period of freeze/thaw at the beginning and end of the winter. Once it's solidly frozen (most of the winter), you effectively have a concrete subbase supporting the pavement (with ice acting as the concrete). If you could keep that year round, that would be the best subbase available. By the time you get a ways into Ohio, you don't see much freeze/thaw action (the freeze has to go deep enough. a light frost isn't the same in terms of pavement damage) Down in the south end of Michigan, it's the sweet spot where freeze/thaw happens for much of the winter. That kills pavements. When it thaws, you effectively get pockets of liquid water supporting the pavement above the deeper still frozen ground. Water doesn't make a good support structure.

No, right. The road funding formula in Michigan is based on lane miles, not population density. I should know, I'm in politics on a local level and I've studied the lane mile formula at great length.

The bulk of state (Michigan) road funding goes to the UP where the population density is much less than the lower.

Pull the stats and look before making a false statement.

Bottom line here is, the entire highway system in this country is failing. From bridges that are falling apart to potholes that aren't filled in the summer to graft and corruption sucking road dollars from the roads.

Solution? Not sure other than investing in new shocks, ball joints and a kidney belt to keep your organs in place.

Like some posters posted on here a while ago. People are in a hurry to get nowhere because we live in a 'me first' society where being first in getting somewhere is above everything else.

I drive 2 lanes as a rule myself. I like to 'smell the roses' and I'm in no hurry anyway. I's vacation, not the Indy 500.

SidecarFlip wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

SidecarFlip wrote:
If you want to drive on really nice smooth roads, roads like glass, I suggest the Upper Penninsula of Michigan. Roads are fantastic. You see, here in Michigan, road maintenance is based on a Lane Mile funding ratio and the UP has the most lane miles so they get the most road funding from the State.

Wrong.

The vast majority of lane miles is in the southern urban areas.

The UP benefits from two major things:
- The truck volumes are much lower. Yeah, you have some logging and other things but not even close to what a lane on an urban freeway sees to the south.
- The other is far less freeze/thaw. The UP generally has a short period of freeze/thaw at the beginning and end of the winter. Once it's solidly frozen (most of the winter), you effectively have a concrete subbase supporting the pavement (with ice acting as the concrete). If you could keep that year round, that would be the best subbase available. By the time you get a ways into Ohio, you don't see much freeze/thaw action (the freeze has to go deep enough. a light frost isn't the same in terms of pavement damage) Down in the south end of Michigan, it's the sweet spot where freeze/thaw happens for much of the winter. That kills pavements. When it thaws, you effectively get pockets of liquid water supporting the pavement above the deeper still frozen ground. Water doesn't make a good support structure.

No, right. The road funding formula in Michigan is based on lane miles, not population density. I should know, I'm in politics on a local level and I've studied the lane mile formula at great length.

The bulk of state (Michigan) road funding goes to the UP where the population density is much less than the lower.

Pull the stats and look before making a false statement.

OK, as I don't have a horse in this race, and am not going to argue with either one, can you tell me Why the UP gets more road funding, when even a quick glance at a map appears to show far more roads in the LP?

We fall in the "two-lane country road" category, and find our 'several trips' a year cross-country less stressful and more enjoyable. We do not 'camp' to rush, we take our time and enjoy the sights. We almost never drive on interstates or mega-highways unless we need it to get to a specific area ... and there is almost always a country road that gets there, even if it takes longer.

We also find some interesting and out of the way places that's we'd otherwise miss.

But more OT, the highways and interstates need constant repairs, but it seems more of the money is spent elsewhere than should be allowed for 'other services' and not so much on the actual repairs that are needed. If highway departments did the proper repairs when needed instead of waiting until it gets severe damage, then it might be a different story. But delaying repairs "until we have enough" means it will always take MORE to fix it.

Studies to decide IF a pothole exists, or a road need repair also spends more of the repair budget. Don't study it, just maintain it - that's what should happen.

Road construction everywhere in Central Ohio area. I will say on the highways, they do a lot of it at night to make the morning commute less of a hassle.

The 3 rules in Life?

Taxes

Death

Road Construction

Ductape wrote:
Compared to what other nations?

How many would be willing to pay higher fuel taxes?

My state,Pa,already has the highest gas taxes in the country. One major problem is PennDOT and prevailing wage laws. PennDOT's rules make the cost of building/repairing highways and bridges much more than they need to be. And prevailing wages add about 25% in costs. If you don't live here you don't have any idea how screwed up PennDOT is. The 422 project near Pottstown has been going on for years and there's no end in sight. And you drive through it an most times nobody is working or just one crew working on a small section.The town where I live is about a half mile long. It took PennDOT over 2 years to redo that small section of highway. Then, they out manhole covers for the storm sewer in the driving lane right were your tires go. What kind of idiot engineer designs something so stupid? A PennDOT engineer,that's who.

SidecarFlip wrote:

dodge guy wrote:
I’ve been all around. The Midwest and east coast are awful. I hope they take my $200 in tolls from my trip and put it towards the highways!

Maybe 10 bucks of that might make it. The rest will be absorbed by graft and corruption.

If he paid a toll on the Pennsylvania Turnpike, the first 400 million will go to PennDot.

RGar974417 wrote:

Ductape wrote:
Compared to what other nations?

How many would be willing to pay higher fuel taxes?

My state,Pa,already has the highest gas taxes in the country. One major problem is PennDOT and prevailing wage laws. PennDOT's rules make the cost of building/repairing highways and bridges much more than they need to be. And prevailing wages add about 25% in costs.

Add that to funding the pension funds, which are out of control and not sustainable. No politician in his right mind is about to push legislation for reform as its a guaranteed election loser. The whole system works as designed and both the prevailing wage and pension provisions are the main purpose of the unions existence. PA government /PENNDOT has always been corrupt, and always will be. Interestingly the PA Turnpike Commission is even worse and makes Penndot look like a convent full of nuns.

Silliest thread I've seen in a while! Like complaining about the weather.