Another reason NOT to use the "Water Thief"

Me Again wrote:
Yeap, it is going to cross contaminate here, but not in thousands of RV parks around the country! Maybe their water sucks rather than blows!

In fact many older parks have some "Frost proof" Hydrants, these are the kind where you lift an handle to make water flow and push it down to make it stop.

These do, in fact, suck

The actual valve is underground, how far under is a variable, usually it is set in gravel and it's right on the undergound water line. It is a 3-way valve, when you open the hydrant to fill your RV it connects to the water line that is under pressure and you get water,

When you push it back down it opens a drain and water drains out of the vertical pipe so it can not freeze... IF you have a hose hooked to it, it can indeed suck up whatever is on the other end of that hose. (unless you add a vacuum breaker)

I used this type of hydrant on the farm, and have seen it in several northern campgrounds and a few southern ones as well.

It is no longer approved, but older parks may be grandfathered.

wa8yxm wrote:

Me Again wrote:
Yeap, it is going to cross contaminate here, but not in thousands of RV parks around the country! Maybe their water sucks rather than blows!

In fact many older parks have some "Frost proof" Hydrants, these are the kind where you lift an handle to make water flow and push it down to make it stop.

These do, in fact, suck

The actual valve is underground, how far under is a variable, usually it is set in gravel and it's right on the undergound water line. It is a 3-way valve, when you open the hydrant to fill your RV it connects to the water line that is under pressure and you get water,

When you push it back down it opens a drain and water drains out of the vertical pipe so it can not freeze... IF you have a hose hooked to it, it can indeed suck up whatever is on the other end of that hose. (unless you add a vacuum breaker)

I used this type of hydrant on the farm, and have seen it in several northern campgrounds and a few southern ones as well.

It is no longer approved, but older parks may be grandfathered.

All the parks around here have this type of hydrant and I have them on the farm too. They do have a anti-siphon connection screw on the end during the camping season and then they remove them for winter so the hydrant can work as intended and not freeze. I've never hard of them not being approved. In fact I don't know how else you would do it to keep the lines from freezing?

Oh, on the farm we fill our farm chemical sprayer out of the rural water supply line. There are 3 levels of safety so that no chemical gets back into the system. Including a anti syphon device on the main line coming to the farm. Standard procedure around here and probably a law too.

Desert Captain wrote:
IMHO: The water thief is nothing more than a sleazy way to get around the rules(that just apply to other people).

I'm not sure why this is such a cause celebre with you, but I typically use my water thief when someone has busted off the head from a fresh water fill line. (A water source intended to fill RV water tanks.)

However, when I fill my 100 gal RV water tank, if it's a choice between lifting 20, 5 gal buckets or temporarily connecting a water thief from a non-threaded connection -- I'm using my water thief.

I camp at Roosevelt all the time but in the Lakeview rv park across the street from the marina. They have a lake water filtration system that provides water for the park and the marina and I'm not sure what else. But, the water tastes like c r a p and we don't drink it and certainly wouldn't use it to fill our tanks with. Does the FS use this re-cycled lake water for their campgrounds? They might but I can't verify it.

TechWriter wrote:

Desert Captain wrote:
IMHO: The water thief is nothing more than a sleazy way to get around the rules(that just apply to other people).

I'm not sure why this is such a cause celebre with you, but I typically use my water thief when someone has busted off the head from a fresh water fill line. (A water source intended to fill RV water tanks.)

However, when I fill my 100 gal RV water tank, if it's a choice between lifting 20, 5 gal buckets or temporarily connecting a water thief from a non-threaded connection -- I'm using my water thief.

Having never encountered a busted off head from a water source intended to fill RV tanks it seems odd that apparently you have more than once. :h Stuff happens and that certainly sounds like a legitimate use of the WT. Clearly I was referring to the folks who use the WT to take (steal?), water when to do so is specifically prohibited.

I saw this USFS posting which clearly outlines just one, of any number of reasons bulk tank filling may be restricted, took the picture and posted it. As I noted some USFS CG's have very limited supplies of fresh water and could be negatively impacted by a multiple RV's filling their tanks. Typically these CG's have no threads and signs clearly posted prohibiting the attachment of hoses. Jacob Lake, north of the North Rim of the Grand Canyon (at the intersection of 89A and 67), is a good example.

I am sure there are folks on this Forum who were totally oblivious to this rule and obviously a lot of folks here who just don't care and ignore it. Thought I'd share the info here and let folks decide what they will do (now), knowing the possible consequences.

:C

There is a dump station at Rifle Gap State Park here in Colorado that has potable water outlets at each end of the island that are clearly marked "potable water" and are clearly meant for filling RVs, but use unthreaded nozzles at the end of hoses. In this case, there are no signs that prohibit filling RVs. It really makes no sense, though, because I watched another RV with an open water inlet just stick the hose end into his inlet. I had to use my water thief and managed to fill my tank, but I left the screwdriver I used to tighten the thief at the dump station.

Maybe that's why they're using the unthreaded nozzles: they're collecting screwdrivers.

TechWriter wrote:

Desert Captain wrote:
IMHO: The water thief is nothing more than a sleazy way to get around the rules(that just apply to other people).

I'm not sure why this is such a cause celebre with you, but I typically use my water thief when someone has busted off the head from a fresh water fill line. (A water source intended to fill RV water tanks.)

However, when I fill my 100 gal RV water tank, if it's a choice between lifting 20, 5 gal buckets or temporarily connecting a water thief from a non-threaded connection -- I'm using my water thief.

I agree if there is a prohibition against using/filling too much water the sign needs to state it. I could fill my tank from buckets or I could use the water thief.
If water thieves are prohibited than one can just fill via buckets. However that doesn't resolve the consumption issue,if that is truly the problem.

"Water Thief"? I had to look that up to see what it was. Never heard that term before. But ... I made one of my own by taking a garden hose and cutting off the end. The hose end is large enough to fit over most unthreaded spigots. Well, in almost 30 years of camping in one form or another, and camping with my parents since 1961, I only used it once! (Oh, I'm a rebel and law breaker, aren't I). Really though, I never knew what this contraption I created was called.

dewey02 wrote:

D & M wrote:
"Another reason"? I didn't know there was any reason. Please enlighten us.

As a retired USFS program manager for 30+ campgrounds, I can say that a primary reason is because the well and pump system (in our case, it was solar driven pumps) have a low capacity, and the storage tank at each well house was 100-200 gallons. A good sized rig could empty that out in a flash, and it would take most of the day to refill with the slow capacity solar pumps. This would mean that those who came after you would have limited amounts, or no water for a considerable time.

Thanks for that inside info.

Lantley wrote:

TechWriter wrote:

Desert Captain wrote:
IMHO: The water thief is nothing more than a sleazy way to get around the rules(that just apply to other people).

I'm not sure why this is such a cause celebre with you, but I typically use my water thief when someone has busted off the head from a fresh water fill line. (A water source intended to fill RV water tanks.)

However, when I fill my 100 gal RV water tank, if it's a choice between lifting 20, 5 gal buckets or temporarily connecting a water thief from a non-threaded connection -- I'm using my water thief.

I agree if there is a prohibition against using/filling too much water the sign needs to state it. I could fill my tank from buckets or I could use the water thief.
If water thieves are prohibited than one can just fill via buckets. However that doesn't resolve the consumption issue,if that is truly the problem.

It certainly addresses the consumption issue. By not making it easy, the CG is trying to dissuade people from filling 100 gallons at once. It is relatively easy to have the hose fill your tank. But lifting a 5 gallon bucket up to chest height about 20 times is not so easy. Most folks would put in less water via the latter vs the former.