Interesting read. If you want to pull a fifth wheel with a medium or heavy truck your fueling situation just improved. Probably future bus conversions as well. They are also adding CCS chargepoints for lighter vehicles although under a different program. Times are a changing. https://insideevs.com/news/628605/pilot-stations-fast-chargers-ev-trucks/amp/

It seems like the fan base for EVs has become nearly cult-like, but what about the human rights abuses? What about all the adults and children forced into slavery by the Chinese owners of the cobalt mines in the Congo?We're supposed to believe that it's all unicorns and rainbows, but purchasing an EV is literally supporting slavery. Is everyone OK with this?If you're on the fence and considering buying an EV, check out Cobalt Red: How the Blood of the Congo Powers Our Lives and/or listen to Joe Rogan's recent interview with Siddharth Kara.This isn't some abstract concept. It's forced child labor and adult slavery, practices our so-called advanced societies have sworn to stomp out. But instead we let the green movement propel us into committing to a technology that we know deep inside ourselves is wrong. There are no unicorns. And there aren't any rainbows for the slaves in the cobalt mines.The smugness of the electric vehicle owners is based upon lies after lies. And we're all expected to buy into it without questioning anything.Mr. & Mrs. Reisender: I've been reading your posts for years now and I consider you to be highly intelligent and somewhat thoughtful, but I was surprised by your response to a well thought-out challenge to EV technology last week:Reisender wrote:Unfortunately I am not knowledgeable in any of those areas so can’t really contribute an intelligent comment.For someone who has researched the tech as much as you have, I can't believe that you haven't researched the counterpoints. This tells me that either your bias is preventing you from doing the research or you actually HAVE done the research and don't want to admit that there are many valid obstacles that still need to be overcome.We treat the pros as if there are no cons. We pretend that it's a black and white issue, but it's full of nuances and consequences that we aren't allowing ourselves to discuss.But there's no nuance to slavery. Nobody is sort of enslaved or kind of free. History won't be kind to our generation for pretending this is all OK. The hypocrisy is unacceptable.(Disclaimer: Cobalt Red isn't available for a few more weeks. I've pre-ordered it, but I haven't read it. I've listened to the author's interview and read articles, but I haven't read his book. I assume the book only underscores his points though. Time will tell.)

YouTube link:The Disturbing Reality of Cobalt Mining for Rechargeable Batteries

Yah, child labour sucks. But one needs to zoom back a bit to get a better picture. One of the prime uses of cobalt for the last 50 or 60 years has been the refining of gas and diesel. Nobody really cared about the mining practices of cobalt until it was utilized in EV batteries. Certainly it has been used in batteries in hand held devices for decades as well. Again, no one cared. On the plus side, the two biggest manufacturers of EV’s are BYD and Tesla. Each produce more than half of the EV’s they make with zero cobalt as they use LFP batteries. Both Ford and Rivian are offering models next year with zero cobalt as well. Bottom line, the EV industry continues to us less cobalt in their batteries. However, if one is against any form of cobalt use then park that ICE car and buy a Tesla RWD model Y or 3. You’ll feel better knowing no cobalt was used.

Reisender wrote:Yah, child labour sucks. But one needs to zoom back a bit to get a better picture.One of the prime uses of cobalt for the last 50 or 60 years has been the refining of gas and diesel. Nobody really cared about the mining practices of cobalt until it was utilized in EV batteries. Certainly it has been used in batteries in hand held devices for decades as well. Again, no one cared. On the plus side, the two biggest manufacturers of EV’s are BYD and Tesla. Each produce more than half of the EV’s they make with zero cobalt as they use LFP batteries. Both Ford and Rivian are offering models next year with zero cobalt as well. Bottom line, the EV industry continues to us less cobalt in their batteries. However, if one is against any form of cobalt use then park that ICE car and buy a Tesla RWD model Y or 3. You’ll feel better knowing no cobalt was used.Wow. Just wow. I'm forming a new opinion of you.You realize that the demand for EVs is causing these operations to expand, right? So more demand means more slavery, right?But since we've evidently always had slavery, what's the harm? At least that's how I'm interpreting your post.I get it though. It's hard for anyone to claw their way out of their bias. We all have a bias to one degree or another. Yours seems to be stronger than I thought though.By the way, I take back the "thoughtful" comment I made before. I still believe that you're extremely intelligent, but thoughtful people don't rationalize slavery.

dedmiston wrote:Reisender wrote:Yah, child labour sucks. But one needs to zoom back a bit to get a better picture.One of the prime uses of cobalt for the last 50 or 60 years has been the refining of gas and diesel. Nobody really cared about the mining practices of cobalt until it was utilized in EV batteries. Certainly it has been used in batteries in hand held devices for decades as well. Again, no one cared. On the plus side, the two biggest manufacturers of EV’s are BYD and Tesla. Each produce more than half of the EV’s they make with zero cobalt as they use LFP batteries. Both Ford and Rivian are offering models next year with zero cobalt as well. Bottom line, the EV industry continues to us less cobalt in their batteries. However, if one is against any form of cobalt use then park that ICE car and buy a Tesla RWD model Y or 3. You’ll feel better knowing no cobalt was used.Wow. Just wow. I'm forming a new opinion of you.You realize that the demand for EVs is causing these operations to expand, right? So more demand means more slavery, right?But since we've evidently always had slavery, what's the harm? At least that's how I'm interpreting your post.I get it though. It's hard for anyone to claw their way out of their bias. We all have a bias to one degree or another. Yours seems to be stronger than I thought though.By the way, I take back the "thoughtful" comment I made before. I still believe that you're extremely intelligent, but thoughtful people don't rationalize slavery.Agreed. But you are also okay with it or you wouldn’t be driving an ice. Again, if it’s bothering you that much (and it obviously is) go buy an EV that doesn’t use cobalt and park your ice vehicle that is. Anyway, feel free to open a new topic discussing your concern with cobalt use in the petroleum industry, medical field and EV industry. This thread is about charging facilities at Flying J and Pilot that may benefit RVers. Cheers.

Flying J / Pilot to install megachargers for med/heavy trks

dedmiston
Moderator
Jan 03, 2023
Did I hijack a thread? Yes. And normally I would apologize to the Reisenders, but they start enough threads that they can spare one.

And is this bad manners on my part? Absolutely yes.

But what's worse, bad manners or slavery?

There is a ton of cheerleading for EVs on this forum and I've been pretty fair about not interjecting into the discussions except when the cheerleaders hijack other threads. But that was until I saw this info about the Chinese owned slave mines in the Congo.

In my opinion it's wrong of me to stand by and not say anything about the proliferation of the EVs when that's exacerbating the human rights problems.

Honestly, I don't know that I've ever met anyone from the Congo and I don't actually know anything about the Congolese. Maybe they're all jerks and don't deserve our concern. That's doubtful, but maybe.

But a lot of Americans didn't have strong enough convictions to stand up and say anything about the Jews in the 40s. What if we had?

It seems like a good time to take a stand though. Pick a side. Be on the side who buys a new EV and makes the problem worse, or be on the side who stands up and says it's wrong and tries to hold the EV buyers accountable.
Reisender
Nomad
Jan 03, 2023
dedmiston wrote:
Did I hijack a thread? Yes. And normally I would apologize to the Reisenders, but they start enough threads that they can spare one.

And is this bad manners on my part? Absolutely yes.

But what's worse, bad manners or slavery?

There is a ton of cheerleading for EVs on this forum and I've been pretty fair about not interjecting into the discussions except when the cheerleaders hijack other threads. But that was until I saw this info about the Chinese owned slave mines in the Congo.

In my opinion it's wrong of me to stand by and not say anything about the proliferation of the EVs when that's exacerbating the human rights problems.

Honestly, I don't know that I've ever met anyone from the Congo and I don't actually know anything about the Congolese. Maybe they're all jerks and don't deserve our concern. That's doubtful, but maybe.

But a lot of Americans didn't have strong enough convictions to stand up and say anything about the Jews in the 40s. What if we had?

It seems like a good time to take a stand though. Pick a side. Be on the side who buys a new EV and makes the problem worse, or be on the side who stands up and says it's wrong and tries to hold the EV buyers accountable.

Sure. But are you against EV’s in general or just those that use cobalt. Roughly half.

Are you against gas and diesel vehicles are just those that use cobalt. Roughly…you know..ALL of them.

Lots of things use cobalt.

Jmho.
free_radical
Explorer
Jan 04, 2023
dedmiston wrote:
YouTube link:

The Disturbing Reality of Cobalt Mining for Rechargeable Batteries

Am I suposed to believe some anti ev troll just bc hes on JR show?

if you have problem w child labor contact United Nations.

Btv Tesla doesnt use cobalt in their batteries.

Btw your Iphone and computer uses rechargable batts also,will you throw it away now.?
free_radical
Explorer
Jan 04, 2023
dedmiston wrote:
Did I hijack a thread? Yes. And normally I would apologize to the Reisenders, but they start enough threads that they can spare one.

And is this bad manners on my part? Absolutely yes.

But what's worse, bad manners or slavery?

There is a ton of cheerleading for EVs on this forum and I've been pretty fair about not interjecting into the discussions except when the cheerleaders hijack other threads. But that was until I saw this info about the Chinese owned slave mines in the Congo.

In my opinion it's wrong of me to stand by and not say anything about the proliferation of the EVs when that's exacerbating the human rights problems.

Honestly, I don't know that I've ever met anyone from the Congo and I don't actually know anything about the Congolese. Maybe they're all jerks and don't deserve our concern. That's doubtful, but maybe.

But a lot of Americans didn't have strong enough convictions to stand up and say anything about the Jews in the 40s. What if we had?

It seems like a good time to take a stand though. Pick a side. Be on the side who buys a new EV and makes the problem worse, or be on the side who stands up and says it's wrong and tries to hold the EV buyers accountable.

Where was your anger when we bombed Iraq stole their oil and murdered milions of muslims including women and children.

Same in Afganistan Syria Lybia Serbia Vietnam.

And you want to brag about defending human rights ??
free_radical
Explorer
Jan 04, 2023
;)

https://youtu.be/63kJr-3_f_4
TechWriter
Explorer
Jan 04, 2023
free radical wrote:

Where was your anger when we bombed Iraq stole their oil and murdered milions of muslims including women and children.

Same in Afganistan Syria Lybia Serbia Vietnam.

And you want to brag about defending human rights ??

And then there's China who accounts for 42% of all goods shipped to the US.

Since the admin mentioned the persecution of the Jews, China has been systematically trying to eliminate the Uyghurs for years.
craig7h
Nomad II
Jan 04, 2023
I have been on this forum for many many years and have seen less sensitive post be deleted.

It seems not only does the "administrator" allow it but encourages this thread to continue.

It seems a new standard has been set, so long to a friendly forum setting. Its just to bad!
Lantley
Nomad
Jan 04, 2023
I have no dog in this fight. But appears to me if there is a Cobalt slave trade connection it had to exist long before EV vehicles. I don't think the slave trade just came about with the creation of EV's.
Are you implying the Cobalt slave trade connection is direct a result of EV vehicles?
While I don't doubt EV's increased the demand for Cobalt. Blaming EV's for the slave trade is misleading.
wildtoad
Explorer II
Jan 04, 2023
Slavery has existed for thousands of years (and sadly exists to day), yet people still go to see the pyramids, and the other “wonders of the world”. We buy trillions of dollars worth of goods from our enemy China much of it built with slave labor, yet we still buy their stuff. I’m ok with folks not buying a product or component there of on moral grounds, but be consistent. Check the labels and don’t buy from countries that use slave labor, or are our enemies.
wildtoad
Explorer II
Jan 04, 2023
As one of, if not the largest fuel company in the USA, I expect Pilot to aggressively provide support for electric trucks and cars. It matters not how many chargers they install, it won’t be enough unless charging times come way down.