Interesting read. If you want to pull a fifth wheel with a medium or heavy truck your fueling situation just improved. Probably future bus conversions as well. They are also adding CCS chargepoints for lighter vehicles although under a different program. Times are a changing. https://insideevs.com/news/628605/pilot-stations-fast-chargers-ev-trucks/amp/

It seems like the fan base for EVs has become nearly cult-like, but what about the human rights abuses? What about all the adults and children forced into slavery by the Chinese owners of the cobalt mines in the Congo?We're supposed to believe that it's all unicorns and rainbows, but purchasing an EV is literally supporting slavery. Is everyone OK with this?If you're on the fence and considering buying an EV, check out Cobalt Red: How the Blood of the Congo Powers Our Lives and/or listen to Joe Rogan's recent interview with Siddharth Kara.This isn't some abstract concept. It's forced child labor and adult slavery, practices our so-called advanced societies have sworn to stomp out. But instead we let the green movement propel us into committing to a technology that we know deep inside ourselves is wrong. There are no unicorns. And there aren't any rainbows for the slaves in the cobalt mines.The smugness of the electric vehicle owners is based upon lies after lies. And we're all expected to buy into it without questioning anything.Mr. & Mrs. Reisender: I've been reading your posts for years now and I consider you to be highly intelligent and somewhat thoughtful, but I was surprised by your response to a well thought-out challenge to EV technology last week:Reisender wrote:Unfortunately I am not knowledgeable in any of those areas so can’t really contribute an intelligent comment.For someone who has researched the tech as much as you have, I can't believe that you haven't researched the counterpoints. This tells me that either your bias is preventing you from doing the research or you actually HAVE done the research and don't want to admit that there are many valid obstacles that still need to be overcome.We treat the pros as if there are no cons. We pretend that it's a black and white issue, but it's full of nuances and consequences that we aren't allowing ourselves to discuss.But there's no nuance to slavery. Nobody is sort of enslaved or kind of free. History won't be kind to our generation for pretending this is all OK. The hypocrisy is unacceptable.(Disclaimer: Cobalt Red isn't available for a few more weeks. I've pre-ordered it, but I haven't read it. I've listened to the author's interview and read articles, but I haven't read his book. I assume the book only underscores his points though. Time will tell.)

YouTube link:The Disturbing Reality of Cobalt Mining for Rechargeable Batteries

Yah, child labour sucks. But one needs to zoom back a bit to get a better picture. One of the prime uses of cobalt for the last 50 or 60 years has been the refining of gas and diesel. Nobody really cared about the mining practices of cobalt until it was utilized in EV batteries. Certainly it has been used in batteries in hand held devices for decades as well. Again, no one cared. On the plus side, the two biggest manufacturers of EV’s are BYD and Tesla. Each produce more than half of the EV’s they make with zero cobalt as they use LFP batteries. Both Ford and Rivian are offering models next year with zero cobalt as well. Bottom line, the EV industry continues to us less cobalt in their batteries. However, if one is against any form of cobalt use then park that ICE car and buy a Tesla RWD model Y or 3. You’ll feel better knowing no cobalt was used.

Reisender wrote:Yah, child labour sucks. But one needs to zoom back a bit to get a better picture.One of the prime uses of cobalt for the last 50 or 60 years has been the refining of gas and diesel. Nobody really cared about the mining practices of cobalt until it was utilized in EV batteries. Certainly it has been used in batteries in hand held devices for decades as well. Again, no one cared. On the plus side, the two biggest manufacturers of EV’s are BYD and Tesla. Each produce more than half of the EV’s they make with zero cobalt as they use LFP batteries. Both Ford and Rivian are offering models next year with zero cobalt as well. Bottom line, the EV industry continues to us less cobalt in their batteries. However, if one is against any form of cobalt use then park that ICE car and buy a Tesla RWD model Y or 3. You’ll feel better knowing no cobalt was used.Wow. Just wow. I'm forming a new opinion of you.You realize that the demand for EVs is causing these operations to expand, right? So more demand means more slavery, right?But since we've evidently always had slavery, what's the harm? At least that's how I'm interpreting your post.I get it though. It's hard for anyone to claw their way out of their bias. We all have a bias to one degree or another. Yours seems to be stronger than I thought though.By the way, I take back the "thoughtful" comment I made before. I still believe that you're extremely intelligent, but thoughtful people don't rationalize slavery.

dedmiston wrote:Reisender wrote:Yah, child labour sucks. But one needs to zoom back a bit to get a better picture.One of the prime uses of cobalt for the last 50 or 60 years has been the refining of gas and diesel. Nobody really cared about the mining practices of cobalt until it was utilized in EV batteries. Certainly it has been used in batteries in hand held devices for decades as well. Again, no one cared. On the plus side, the two biggest manufacturers of EV’s are BYD and Tesla. Each produce more than half of the EV’s they make with zero cobalt as they use LFP batteries. Both Ford and Rivian are offering models next year with zero cobalt as well. Bottom line, the EV industry continues to us less cobalt in their batteries. However, if one is against any form of cobalt use then park that ICE car and buy a Tesla RWD model Y or 3. You’ll feel better knowing no cobalt was used.Wow. Just wow. I'm forming a new opinion of you.You realize that the demand for EVs is causing these operations to expand, right? So more demand means more slavery, right?But since we've evidently always had slavery, what's the harm? At least that's how I'm interpreting your post.I get it though. It's hard for anyone to claw their way out of their bias. We all have a bias to one degree or another. Yours seems to be stronger than I thought though.By the way, I take back the "thoughtful" comment I made before. I still believe that you're extremely intelligent, but thoughtful people don't rationalize slavery.Agreed. But you are also okay with it or you wouldn’t be driving an ice. Again, if it’s bothering you that much (and it obviously is) go buy an EV that doesn’t use cobalt and park your ice vehicle that is. Anyway, feel free to open a new topic discussing your concern with cobalt use in the petroleum industry, medical field and EV industry. This thread is about charging facilities at Flying J and Pilot that may benefit RVers. Cheers.

Flying J / Pilot to install megachargers for med/heavy trks

kwplot34
Explorer
Jan 07, 2023
All EV's should be charged by either solar or wind power, otherwise the owners of EV's are just pretending.

Carry on.
Lantley
Nomad
Jan 06, 2023
At this point EV vs ICE is not about math or engineering.
Elon has shown it can be done.
The debate is more finances. Who can win public opinion.
Who will ultimately control the profits

I see the whole going green movement as part of the propaganda to eliminate fossil fuels.
Exxon and those that will suffer financially are not going to just go away and cede to renewable energy.
We can pick ice vs. EV or Fossil vs. Renewable.
But the battle is between old established money the future captains of industry.
The old money will try to slow things down and hang on as long as possible.
Hopefully we all can see change is coming. EV's and renewable energy is our future.
Yes there are issues but the Cobalt slave trade will not hinder things.
Chinese workers do not enjoy the same protections as U.S. workers, but that has not slowed Apple or Nike.
I won't agree or disagree on the existence of the Cobalt slaves but at the end of the day the western world turns a blind eye in the same way we ignore Mid East atrocities in the name of oil.
The energy revolution is just in its infancy, old money will hold on as long as they can (It will take years). Both sides will push propaganda through the media and politically. In the end change is coming. There is nothing insurmountable holding back the energy revolution.
Infrastructure, battery tech, raw materials are all more a matter of time and money vs. a dead end.
shelbyfv
Explorer
Jan 06, 2023
Grit dog wrote:
shelbyfv wrote:
5 vs 2? I keep reading "math math math" (though more accurately arithmetic) so I figured I'd get on board. As you noticed the number of pairs in the drawer is probably irrelevant to the solution.

Perzactly!
Yet it’s not irrelevant when making a calculated decision or analysis of SO many other things.
Like say, being able to calculate the amount of rare earth metal used PER VEHICLE or more accurately per vehicle mile.
Not trying to start an argument here, but the turnip truck that I fell off of dropped me in engineering school and if I was to casually dismiss “arithmetic” and statistics whenever convenient, people would be dead and I would be best case unemployed or in jail, worst case dead as well…lol.
:)Hey, I know my limitations. I'll not debate arithmetic nor math with an engineering school grad! It's said there are three kinds of people. Those who understand math and those who don't!!
Grit_dog
Navigator
Jan 06, 2023
ronharmless wrote:
I put the cotton on first and put the wool over top of them.

And as long as your feet didn’t sweat you’d be toasty! Lol
Grit_dog
Navigator
Jan 06, 2023
shelbyfv wrote:
5 vs 2? I keep reading "math math math" (though more accurately arithmetic) so I figured I'd get on board. As you noticed the number of pairs in the drawer is probably irrelevant to the solution.

Perzactly!
Yet it’s not irrelevant when making a calculated decision or analysis of SO many other things.
Like say, being able to calculate the amount of rare earth metal used PER VEHICLE or more accurately per vehicle mile.
Not trying to start an argument here, but the turnip truck that I fell off of dropped me in engineering school and if I was to casually dismiss “arithmetic” and statistics whenever convenient, people would be dead and I would be best case unemployed or in jail, worst case dead as well…lol.
shelbyfv
Explorer
Jan 06, 2023
:h
MFL
Nomad II
Jan 06, 2023
ronharmless wrote:
MFL wrote:
Pop IQ test!!!

I want to take a fox, a goose, and some corn across the river. I can only take one at a time with me in my boat. How can I do this, when the fox will eat the goose, the goose will eat the corn, if left unattended? Help!!
Take the goose, go back and take the coyote across and bring the goose back on the return trip, then take the corn across leaving the goose, go back and get the goose. Any more stupid questions? Or can we be done with the stupid riddles that have no bearing on the original post?
Seeing as it was an IQ test, do I get extra credit if I have two solutions?
I Buy a bigger boat and cut my workload way down.

Ron...sorry to say, that you have a reading comprehension issue here.

Where in the quiz, was there any mention of a coyote??

Otherwise correct, and now back to our regular programming.
Boon_Docker
Explorer III
Jan 06, 2023
Grit dog wrote:
cptqueeg wrote:

No credit for using math until you show your work.

What you've written is based on assumptions and presumptions and has nothing to do w math. Compare the scale of EV's produced vs the amount of gasoline consumed and get back to us on total amount of cobalt used. And just one other thing to consider is the potential to recycle the EV batts and the cobalt they contain.

And while we're using batts to carry electrical energy at the moment once roads are electrified there won't be near the need for big batteries as this process continues.

ROFL, I'm not sue of which of your statements to laugh harder at...
But allow me to help you out...
I gave the numbers (idk if they're right, jsut like the rest of yall don't know what youre claiming based on your super sleuth searches on the web). We aren't getting into a "cite your sources" discussion I hope. But whatever.
If you can't do the math with the numeros I actually did include, then you're, umm, cant say that word, umm, cant talk about IQ....we will just say you're either simple or obtuse...

Regarding more gas cars than EVs on the road affecting the total numbers....I'll just leave that one alone, because I now know you're either clueless or have an agenda. But I will say apples to apples....think about it.

And you let us know how the ole induction charging technology and infrastructure is coming along....LOL!

Some clowns do try to be funny. :S
ronharmless
Explorer
Jan 06, 2023
MFL wrote:
Pop IQ test!!!

I want to take a fox, a goose, and some corn across the river. I can only take one at a time with me in my boat. How can I do this, when the fox will eat the goose, the goose will eat the corn, if left unattended? Help!!
Take the goose, go back and take the coyote across and bring the goose back on the return trip, then take the corn across leaving the goose, go back and get the goose. Any more stupid questions? Or can we be done with the stupid riddles that have no bearing on the original post?
Seeing as it was an IQ test, do I get extra credit if I have two solutions?
I Buy a bigger boat and cut my workload way down.
ronharmless
Explorer
Jan 06, 2023
shelbyfv wrote:
^^^Winner, winner! Kind of like a hybrid.
Not at all like a hybrid. A hybrid uses the cotton first then when the cotton is gone it uses the wool.