Forum Discussion
John___Angela
Feb 26, 2017Explorer
Lots of good questions. I'm not an expert but know a little bit about some of them....just from reading though.
I agree and share your concern, although nothing presently points to that and we already know how deadly burning fossil fuels is to our planet.
pnichols wrote:
I'm curious about the behind-the-scenes facts surrounding the manufacture, disposal, and replacement of potloads of Li batteries when "everyone (in the world)" is eventually using them in their personal vehicles:
- How large is the world's supply of lithium natural resources?
Found this "The U.S. Geological Survey produced a reserves estimate of lithium in early 2015, concluding that the world has enough known reserves for about 365 years of current global production of about 37,000 tons per year"
- What countries are going to supply the above?
Found this Brazil. "Brazil produced the seventh most lithium in the world at 400 metric tons in 2014. ...
Portugal. Portugal produces the sixth most lithium at 570 metric tons as per 2014 reports. ...
Zimbabwe. ...
Argentina. ...
China. ...
Chile. ...
Australia.
They have also found deposits in half dozen other countries but there is no demand yet that the others can't fill.
- What are the geo-political implications of these various Li sources?
No idea
- Are we eventually talking about freight trains transporting lithium resource materials in several parts of the world ... like used to be/is the case with coal? (Petroleum and natural gas can be transported through pipes in a lot of areas - instead of via a string of freight cars.)
A tesla with the big battery uses about 14 Kg of lithium in the process
- What does the total infrastructure for disposal of expired Li batteries look like?
Not much in the way of disposal yet although there are a handful of companies developing remanufacturing processes that use the degraded batteries for other purposes. Home solar collection etc. If a battery loses 30 percent of its capacity it might not work well for the car anymore but could have another 10 to 20 years of repurposed life.
- Can expired Li batteries be recycled ... or must they be completely disposed of?
Recycling processes to date have been time and labor intensive but the next generations of packs is being designed to accommodate recycling better. i don't hink its an easy process from what I have seen
- Looking at the huge eye-sore piles of scrapped electronic products awaiting recycling or melting down or burying in certain countries (not the U.S.) ... is this how depleted Li batteries are going to wind up in certain unfortunate countries?
No idea. Depends on their goverments I suppose.
- What does the total infrastructure for replacement of the Li batteries in vehicles look like? Purchased on eBay, sold by Amazon, sold by Walmart, etc. and then taken to a service point for installation? Only dealers can source and install them? Shade tree mechanics and/or EV owners can install them? When they go so flat at one's home and one lives too far from a replacement facility, how does one get their EV to a facility for replacement (gas and diesel can be taken in a smal container to a vehicle needing refueling)? Are we talking about a whole new cottage industry of Li batteries replacement at the owner's place of residence?
I think its too hard to tell yet. There hasn't been a real cottage industry developing yet as the few batteries that have been replaced under warranties go back to the manufacturer for analysis etc. Wait ten years and we'll know more. Getting the car to a dealer?, I would suspect a tow truck. There are lots of nissan, mercedes, BMW, Chevy, and Kia dealers. Tesla sends a truck and brings it to a repair facility.
- As a very rough comparison ... what are the behind-the-scenes logistics surrounding how are the world's supply of expired dry cell batteries and lead acid vehicle batteries are disposed of?
No idea on dry cell. Pretty much 100 percent of lead is recycled. That is why there are very few lead mines in existence anymore. Lead is considered toxic if buried. Water table poisoning etc. Lithium batteries are not considered toxic materials although it would be a waste to just toss them out. Remember, the lithium doesn't get depleted or used up, just the anode cathode barriers get compromised.
I hope that the world's solutions to all of the above don't wind up polluting Mother Earth more than use of fossil fuel does.
I agree and share your concern, although nothing presently points to that and we already know how deadly burning fossil fuels is to our planet.
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