GVWR, Payload, Towing Capacity or GCWR

Actual available payload, then RAWR/REAR Tire MAX Load Rating, then vehicle GVWR.

I don't even bother/worry about GCWR as the above ratings will be over before reaching GCWR and/or mfg. published MAX Tow Ratings.

If you are going to only go by the sticker on the door then yes payload is what will get you.

If you end up with a HD truck then the sticker isn't really an accurate representation of the trucks capabilities. Per my door sticker I have a 2888 payload, but based on a more realistic knowledge of the truck I can load up to ±5200lbs of payload. About 1,000lbs of that is taken up with suspension upgrades, wheel/tire upgrades, filters, hitches, tool box stuff, etc. But I have an honest 4,000lbs I can load into the truck before approaching any self imposed limits.

Golden_HVAC wrote:
The dually versions can carry around 5,000 pounds in most modern trucks, built after 2005. They also have GCVWR that are huge compared to their single rear wheel cousins

Is there a specific model you are talking about? Where does this 2005 number come from? A 2005 Dodge was the same running gear as a 2003 Dodge, which was the same (basically, minor changes) as a 2012.

In 2005 the DRW Ford had a whopping 500lb higher GCWR than a SRW 250 or 250. 500lbs, which was 2% more, is huge?

Up until 2005 DRW vs SRW didn't make a bit of difference on GCWR for Ford, 2009 for Dodge. It wasn't until 2011 that DRW GCWR's starting going well above SRW limits, more than just 500lbs. (Don't know/care about GM.. still don't like IFS).

In 2004 a F-250 had a higher tow rating than a DRW F-350, even thou the DRW could handle about 2,200lbs more payload, on paper. My 2005 Dodge 3500 SRW is rated to tow more than the DRW version.

It's all a paper numbers game on the HD trucks anyhow. A 3500/350 DRW doesn't have any bigger cooling system, brakes, etc than a 2500/250. So from a sustainable power standpoint there is no difference.

I am excited to see all 3, whenever Ford gets on board, using J2807 tow specs. It's been a while since I read it, but DRW's will have bigger tow numbers based on J2807 because their required speed up a grade is lower. I am not sure I agree with that logic, but a DRW is the best way to handle a 30K lb trailer in stock form.

Gas or diesel, TT or 5er? A lot of variables. Guess that's why they make a lot of options.

Diesels it will mostly come down to how much load the rear tires can handle.

Gas depends on engine size, rear end ratios, tires, load and extra cooling required.

Tires concern me the most. If you blow one your cost could be just a $100 bill for new rubber or a life.

Decide if you believe in the specifications, limits and RATINGs first

If not, then do whatever like so many do, but know that you have taken the OEM
off the warranty and liability hook.

If yes, then note that there is a 'R' in GCWR, as it is in all 'ratings' specifications

It is called 'margin' to engineers and to the public 'safety margin'. Heaped
in that are many, many things. One is longevity (warranty). Performance is another
and safety is baked into it

Performance also includes braking...that many do NOT believe is part of performance

Performance also has the ability to manhandle the setup within some predetermined
specification. Not at the minimums, but at the maximums of the spec.
Meaning fully loaded to the GVWR/GAWRs/GCWR, at max speed, at max
ambient conditions, etc, etc, etc...it has to be able to stop within
the spec and not just once...but as many times as the spec states...etc, etc, etc

All of the 'RATINGs' has design specifications and testing. To finally agency
certification testing.

Again, most don't believe in this. A few of my past careers were both as designer
and project/program management of design teams. Why I'm a believer, as I used
to have to toe the line to my corporation, insurance and agencies. No automotive
but industrial controls and have been sued personally 4 separate times for
wrongful deaths...none went to trail, as my insurance took my documentation
to the other side and showed them the futility of their claims

Personally because my name is on most doc's as designed by, drawn by,
checked by, approved by...and partner in the small controls company, etc

Payload capacity is the important one, esp. if it's a 1/2 ton TV. As you say, it's quite common to run out of payload capacity well before max. tow & GCWR. Vehicle manufacturers all love to brag about towing capacity and be silent on payload capacity, although I *think* that may be starting to change a bit. You should still look at GCWR and tow capacity, but it's likely to be payload that's the issue for a TT. GVWR is set by the manufacturer and the figure to use to calculate payload capacity. If you have a FW, you'd be wanting to look at the RAWR and scale weight on your drive axle.

It's a good idea to take your TV to a scale and then subtract the weight from the GVWR on your door pillar sticker. Some find that their payload capacity is less than the figure on the door pillar sticker and there has been talk that Ford and GM have been fudging their curb weights to make payload capacity higher. The payload capacity of our F250 is a lot less than the sticker amount. Accessories also add weight (canopy for ex.) and take away payload capacity. If going to a scale, you want to be all loaded up as you would for a camping trip - kids, spouse, pets, groceries, camping gear and firewood in the back, etc. plus a full tank of fuel.

When it comes to looking at a TT (or FW), do not calculate the payload on your TV based on the RV manufacturers dry weights.

I would pay most attention to the GVWR and Payload numbers. Then I would also pay close attention to the axle and tire loading numbers. I would totaly ignore the Towing capacity number.

I towed slighly over my GCWR (although under all other numbers) for quite a few years and never had a problem. I think that number is mostly for warranty purposes. My truck now has about 250,000+ miles on it and still works and looks like a new one.
Barney

First of all, if you load the truck in such a way that the axle is overloaded, you risk immediate tire blow-out. Some towing a fifth wheel or with a slide on camper have more weight on the rear axle than they think, and overload the tires.

If you do not exceed the GVWR, then you likely are not overloading either of the axles, there is a lot of extra capacity built into them. In other words a truck might have a 6000 pound rear axle and 4,800 pound rated front axle with a 8,800 GVWR.

The GCVWR more has to do with how reliable the vehicle will be while towing, and how the transmission will hold up to that sort of load, radiator, and of course brakes.

A truck with a manual transmission might have a much lower GCVWR because the engineers think "They might need to start this whole 15,000 pound load on a hill someday, and can not slip the clutch to much, so 18,000 pounds is out of the question, but this amount of weight works in testing."

A truck with a higher curb weight will be better at towing and stopping a given load. So that if your trailer power cord falls out of the plug in, I would much rather be in a dually truck with engine braking, than in a 1/2 ton where the trailer is 75% of the total weight of truck/trailer combo. Or you could have that problem where the trailer brakes fail due to short circuit or tripped fuse. Still the winner is the larger truck with much larger brakes, and more gravity to help those axles hold to the road.

Commercial trucks have to go through weight stations. They display their GVWR and GCVWR because the law requires it, and if they exceed those ratings, while on the scale, they can get a ticket.

So you have to consider everything, and make sure you are not exceeding either the GCVWR or GVWR. It is very easy with a fifth wheel to exceed the truck's GVWR without getting close to it's GCVWR. So a 3/4 ton truck with a cargo rating of 1975# might tow a conventional trailer with a 12,000 pound GVWR and 1,200 hitch weight, but could only tow a 8,000 pound fifth wheel with a 1,500 pound hitch weight. Loaded the fifth wheel might be over 2,000 pounds hitch weight. ..

Many think that a 3/4 ton is 'fine' for towing anything. Ask the salesman at the GM or Dodge dealership! They will tell you 'it can tow anything'. Sure it can, but will exceed it's GVWR in the process. A much better truck would be the 3500 SRW or DRW, or the F-350 or dually version F-350.

The dually versions can carry around 5,000 pounds in most modern trucks, built after 2005. They also have GCVWR that are huge compared to their single rear wheel cousins, and much higher than the 1/2 ton look-a-likes. The higher GCVWR is not just the largest engine, it is also better transmission cooling, and especially more radiator, and larger brakes!

There is a new tow rating certified and rated by independent reviews, where they take a 'typical' truck and tow a large trailer up a 7% grade from Bullhead City to the top of the hill. If it can make it to the top at 80F outside air temps, and at a minimum speed, then they can 'pass' as being able to tow that much weight.

It really stresses the transmission, radiator, and engine to the max! I think you will see a lot lower weight claims as a result. Many 1/2 ton trucks do not have a large enough radiator to meet the demands of producing 200 HP for 15 minutes in a row. Sure the radiator will not overheat while making 300 HP for the time it takes to get the truck from 0 to 75MPH and onto the freeway, but that is 300 HP for 15 seconds, and will hardly warm up the engine. Run it at 200 HP while pulling a 7,500 pound trailer up a 7% grade for 10 minutes, it is a totally different story, and will overheat a truck with a radiator that is to small, or ones that have electric fans for cooling it.

Fred.