GVWR, Payload, Towing Capacity or GCWR

Ford Towing Guide wrote:

Trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight should be 10-15% (15-25% for 5th-wheel towing) of total loaded trailer weight. Make sure vehicle payload (reduce by option weight) will accommodate trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight and weight of passengers and cargo added to towing vehicle. Addition of trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight and weight of passengers and cargo cannot cause vehicle weights to exceed rear GAWR or GVWR. These ratings can be found on the vehicle Safety Compliance Certification Label.

Other brands have similar wording. So the manufacturers says your tow limit is based on not exceeding any of the vehicle ratings.

ANother that shows manufacture ratings are unenforcable. At least in Wa st, or truck license tags are base on Tare/empty wt time 1.5 to the next higher ton. If you have a truck that weighs empty at say 7000 lbs, times 1.5 is 10500, so you would buy a 12K registrations. I have seen dually's, SW Crew cab Diesels ALL weighing around 7000 lbs. Some of max gvwr's as little as 8600, to as much as 11,xxx lbs. ALL would buy a 12k PLATE, all would be legal going down the road at upwards of 12K lbs.

My sons have a 1500 GM, a Toyota tacoma. Both are around 5200-5500 lbs. THey BOTH have 8K plates, and are legal to 8k. My C2500, weighs all of 4800 lbs, I also have an 8K plate! I am not legal to the door tag of 8600 lbs. I would be overweight by 600 lbs.

as far as legal amounts etc, CHECK with your local state DMV or equal. DO NOT trust what we posters are saying. Then you will know what is legal vs a warranty/performance that a manufacture puts on a vehicle per the local CVEO's that I ahve had some classes taught by.

Marty

You will have some amount of hitch or pin weight - Your rear axle, suspension and wheels have to have the capacity to carry this additional weight. The vehicle weight you are towing is added your actual loaded vehicle to give you a combined rate. Ideally, you will get actual weights for everything and adjust accordingly while others will approximate with worst case scenarios where everything is loaded to maximum to determine what they can tow. There some people that will use the information from the manufacturer on RAWR, GVWR and GCWR as an absolute limit and others will research the components installed in their trucks to find the weakest component that results in the rating and upgrade it to give them an actual higher rating even if it does not reflect so on paper.

I have run into the same thing as AH64ID, I get in washington st 500 lbs per inch width for a single rig, 600 for a dually up to 20K per axel, or 34K per tandem. AS long as I have enough paid for registration tag. I HAVE been pulled over greater than my tire, axel, spring limits, but as of 20 some odd years of being pulled over, I have YET to receive an over wt ticket. I have been over as much 150% of my door tag numbers.

I have also yet to find, ANY state with rules as Jim has posted. I have seen these rules/regulations in a what is recommended by a light and medium duty truck hauler assoc hand book, but they are not actual laws in a given state, as they have not been passed by the individual states. And "IF" a given state were to follow these specs, they would have the potential to lose any and all federal funds for interstate or other roads the feds match or add to local funds. ALL roads with federal moneys, get the min/max per rig to KEEP cargo going on the roads. Manufactures warranty ratings do not come into play in legal amounts.

As far as which truck to choose. I have found that a slightly under powered, correct payload for the job at hand, is the best rig for me any how. Also assuming it has the correct gearing in the trans, axel ratio is a factor of the tire diam. so for me, the bogus engine axel ratio gcwr that many rigs has, is useless propaganda.

I also do not like to tow with a trailer to RA ratio of over 2-1. So if I have a 6K ra, I do not like to tow much over 12K lbs with that rig. Yeah, some manufactures rate there rigs at upwards of 15K with said strength axel, I do not find it to be fun, the dog wags the tail too much.

If you want to go faster up a given interstate grade, get the rig with the most HP. For low end going up steeper grades, the rig with the most torque transmited to the RA with get you up the hill. I have had a 105HP 292 I6 go up a 20+% grade at 12K lbs, 50 % over its gcwr. Yet a 235HP 454 at 12K NOT go up the same hill with a gcwr of 16K lbs. The 292 had a better trans, axel ratio etc to muliply the torque so it would go up the hill.

Reality is, there is not a true right or wrong on what TV to have for a given trailer, other than what your circumstances allow.

Marty

Similar to the info I have found, still not RAWR thou, and Idaho (at least that I have ever found) doesn't mention anything about a manufacturer rating for anything but variable load axles.. could be the difference.

Talking with local LEO's and DOT the axle manufacturer is just that, that axle manufacturer. The axle in your 2003 and my 2005 SRW is rated for 10,912lbs SRW or DRW. Your 2500 frame is the same as my 3500 SRW, which is the same as the DRW which has the Dodge ratings for 9,350 RAWR. The brakes are also the same, and the only difference is a little spring rating, but not enough to make a difference. The main DRW pack is only 7% higher rated.

That is not RAWR, and is a separate number that actually determines the limit.

Just like replacing a 2000lb axle on a small cargo trailer with a 3500lb axle will increase you to 3500lbs of legal load (assuming tires upgraded as well), but the sticker won't match.

If you don't want to take up any more of the thread you can PM me, as always I open for discussion.

FAWR and RAWR are not legally binding limits, not sure where you got that (if you have a reference please post, but in hours and hours of reading code it has never been mentioned). There are only a few things legally binding. Tire limits (600lbs/in of width or as stamped in the sidewall), axle limits (not the ones on the door sticker but rather the 20,000lbs per axle limit), and registration.

Yeah ...they are. After 11 straight years and many part time years towing equipment/flatdecks and enclosed trailers commercially per DOT regs for a living and going through dozens of scale houses dot will take the lessor of a GAWR or the tire loads rating. Remember the tires capacity is determined by the trucks GAWR per the FMVSS's.
600 lbs per inch/20k axle load limits are max load limits which has nothing to do with lessor rated trucks.
Many state weight codes may read like this;

MOTOR VEHICLES
WEIGHT, SPEED AND TIRE REGULATIONS
(snip)

49-1001. Allowable gross loads.

(3) In determining the gross weight of a vehicle or the gross weight of any two (2) or more consecutive axles under subsection (1) or (2) or (9) of this section, the total gross weight of the vehicle or combination of vehicles or the gross weight of any two (2) or more consecutive axles shall be the sum of the axle weights.
For the purposes of this chapter the gross weight of a vehicle or the gross weight of any two (2) or more consecutive axles may be determined by accumulatively adding the separate weights of individual axles and tandem axles or groups of axles to determine gross weight.

49-1002. Allowable load per inch width of tire. (1) The maximum allowable load for any vehicle tire operated on any public highway shall not exceed six hundred (600) pounds per inch width of tire and shall not exceed the manufacturer’s load rating, whichever is less."

Your 2003 has RAWR and FAWR, so why do you say after 2005? The older trucks I have looked at, from the 90's, have FAWR and RAWR. I haven't been around anything recently enough to know on older.

I think you misread what I actually posted which said;
"Many of these rating are not on our older trucks. Rating like GVWR/FAWR/RAWR are placarded on the older and newer trucks. The other numbers were added later ...many after '05."

So, I have found the exact opposite in reading law's about tires and axle ratings. Where did you get your info?

LOL.... you would never make it through the first scale house being above your trucks GAWR or tire load limits. Dot will take the lessor of the two.

I find many state size and weights regs on the net and many from commercial haulers websites.
They can read like this;
17 AAC 25.013. Legal Vehicle Weight (repealed and readopted 4/9/2009
(a) Except as provided in 17 AAC 25.335, the weight of a vehicle or combination of vehicles, including load and equipment, operated or moved on the state highway
system may not exceed a limit set out in this section. If more than one weight limit applies, the most restrictive limitation will be used to determine the maximum allowable weight, as follows:

1. steer axle ......

2. ...550 lb per inch width.....

(3) the weight on any axle may not exceed the manufacturer’s rating;

(snipped)

(4.) single axle/gross/tandam axle combinations/bridge formula/etc

The OP is from Canada. This from one of the provinces:
Size and Weight
Maximum gross weight for tires.
7.15 A person must not, without an overload permit, drive or operate on a highway a vehicle loaded or configured so that the gross weight on a tire exceeds either

(a) the manufacturer's rated capacity for the tire, or

(b) the tire load specified for that vehicle or vehicle combination in Appendix B, C, D, E, F, G, H or I.


Maximum gross weight for axles
7.16 (1) A person must not, without an overload permit, drive or operate on a highway a vehicle loaded or configured so that

(a) the gross weight on an axle exceeds the manufacturer's rated capacity for that axle or for the brake or suspension system with which the axle is equipped,
(snipped for length)

I'm not going to hijack the OPs post farther or get farther into a back and forth with you. You have had a different back ground towing under DOT regulations/scale houses/roadside enforcement than I have. I'll respond to a PM on size and weight regs with ya' if you need.

JIMNLIN wrote:
Here's my input.

GCWR......isn't placarded on a truck nor is it required to be by NHTSA/FMVSS nor is it legally enforced by roadside.

GVWR .... is placarded on the truck but has no legal status as to how much a load truck can carry from a practical or legal standpoint. It can be used in other applications such as figuring the trucks GCW.

Payload capacity.... nothing but a advertising number and not a legal number roadside enforcement uses.

tow capacity...... isn't placarded on the truck so nothing legally enforceable.

FAWR and RAWR ......are a legally number and is enforced by road side.

tire placard capacity.... anther number that can be changed by the truck owner for a higher rating but isn't a enforceable number


Many of these rating are not on our older trucks. Rating like GVWR/FAWR/RAWR are placarded on the older and newer trucks. The other numbers were added later ...many after '05.

Having towed legally/safely with these size trucks to make a living I choose my rating based on safety/reliability.

My choice is stay under the trucks FAWR/RAWR and RAWR/tires load ratings in particular since it will carry most if not all of the load from a trailers hitch or a truck camper.

I also choose to stay close the the truck mfg tow ratings especially a low powered gas engine drive trains for how much my truck can pull.

Others have differing opinions and may use all or some or non of the above numbers.

Not sure I completely follow.

FAWR and RAWR are not legally binding limits, not sure where you got that (if you have a reference please post, but in hours and hours of reading code it has never been mentioned). There are only a few things legally binding. Tire limits (600lbs/in of width or as stamped in the sidewall), axle limits (not the ones on the door sticker but rather the 20,000lbs per axle limit), and registration.

Your 2003 has RAWR and FAWR, so why do you say after 2005? The older trucks I have looked at, from the 90's, have FAWR and RAWR. I haven't been around anything recently enough to know on older.

When I head out camping I am over 2 of 3 placard limits on my drivers door. I am 100% legal to do so. The last trip to the scales had me at:

FAW: 4760
RAW: 7140
GVW: 11,860
TAW: 8000
GCW: 19,860

Relative to the door sticker I was

FAW: -440
RAW: +940
GVW: +1960

I have tires for 9,000/lb an axle and registration for 26K lbs. I am legal in every aspect.

So, I have found the exact opposite in reading law's about tires and axle ratings. Where did you get your info?

Here's my input.

GCWR......isn't placarded on a truck nor is it required to be by NHTSA/FMVSS nor is it legally enforced by roadside.

GVWR .... is placarded on the truck but has no legal status as to how much a load truck can carry from a practical or legal standpoint. It can be used in other applications such as figuring the trucks GCW.

Payload capacity.... nothing but a advertising number and not a legal number roadside enforcement uses.

tow capacity...... isn't placarded on the truck so nothing legally enforceable.

FAWR and RAWR ......are a legally number and is enforced by road side.

tire placard capacity.... anther number that can be changed by the truck owner for a higher rating but isn't a enforceable number


Many of these rating are not on our older trucks. Rating like GVWR/FAWR/RAWR are placarded on the older and newer trucks. The other numbers were added later ...many after '05.

Having towed legally/safely with these size trucks to make a living I choose my rating based on safety/reliability.

My choice is stay under the trucks FAWR/RAWR and RAWR/tires load ratings in particular since it will carry most if not all of the load from a trailers hitch or a truck camper.

I also choose to stay close the the truck mfg tow ratings especially a low powered gas engine drive trains for how much my truck can pull.

Others have differing opinions and may use all or some or non of the above numbers.

Nothing trumps any thing else. If you read the foot notes on any manufacturers maximum tow ratings you will find a note stating something like, none of the vehicles ratings, GVWR, GAWR OR GCWR are to be exceeded. You do not get to pick and chose which ratings to follow and which ratings to ignore.

Ken

jaydub74 wrote:
What trumps what when making a TV decision. I'm not a pulling expert by any means but when looking at commercial trucks they always seem to display their GVWR and GCWR. Should I be using these rather than worrying about the advertised towing capacity and payload. What is the order of importance. I would assume:

GVWR
GCWR
Payload
Towing Capacity (only most trucks will run out of payload before they ever reach their advertised towing capacity).

It's not a matter of "trumping" -- it's a matter of what information you have available.

Published "payload" is approximately equal to GVWR - Curb Weight. It can be used in lieu of knowing a vehicle's actual empty weight.
If you know the actual empty weight, subtract it from GVWR to get the payload value.
Or you can use the "weight of occupants and cargo must not exceed" value from the TIRE AND LOADING INFORMATION sticker.

Published "towing capacity" is approximately equal to GCWR - Curb Weight. It also can be used in lieu of knowing a vehicle's actual empty weight.
If you know the actual empty weight, subtract if from GCWR to get the "towing capacity" value.
Remember -- maximum allowable trailer weight is equal to "towing capacity" minus known or estimated total weight of occupants and cargo carried by the TV.

Lacking certain information, you must use the "payload" and/or "towing capacity" values to ensure you don't exceed GVWR or GCWR.
If you have the necessary information, you can measure or calculate GVW and GCW values and compare directly with GVWR and GCWR.

Ron