Help with Backing Up

Yeah, it kinda stings when people are being condescending, eh?

seagrace wrote:
"I agree with both of Gdetrailers posts completely. You really do need more practice, and she should try backing up also. I am not being condescending, so please don't take me wrong. With practice you both will get much more comfortable. The camp site isn't the place to practice though."

Some of these posts make me sorry I asked. I'm thinking for some of you, English must not be your first language.

I know how to back a trailer, okay? And no, I'm not being "condescending".

I am going to respond even though my intuition is not to, since it was me you quoted and said "English must not be your first language."

If you have your wife try and back up, it will giver her a better understanding of what you need to know when you are trying to back up.

Of course, that is if you can give up just a little bit of control, and help her learn. After that post, I am starting to see why you might be having problems, and yes you were being extremely condescending.

I hope you get it figured out, but I am done on this post.

JMO but it is not the spotters job to tell the driver how to drive the vehicle. It is the spotters job to tell the driver which way & how much she wants the back of the vehicle to go. Making the back follow her instructions is the drivers problem. A good spotter helps by being able to anticipate what needs to happen before it needs to happen, given that 5ers are a little slow to respond.

toedtoes wrote:

Ron3rd wrote:
All good advice above but I will give you a tip for the spotter that helps us;

We got into this in 2004 and I asked questions on this very forum about backing up a travel trailer.

My wife is a very good spotter but she's been doing it for hundreds of trips. We communicate by cell phone (when we can) and instead of saying, "go Right" or "go Left", she will say "PASSENGER" and "DRIVER" SIDE.

In other words, she does not say, "turn to the right". She will say, "start turning to the PASSENGER SIDE".

The Driver Side/Passenger Side lingo that was recommended here was one of the best tips I ever got.

That is always good. Then you don't fall into the "your left or my left" dilemma.

I also want to know from the start if you are telling me to turn the steering wheel OR the trailer - I've had people do both without identifying which they mean and it gets very annoying.

That's why we use "cut" and "follow/straighten out" to describe the way the TV influences the trailer instead of directions or even sides. Of course this assumes there's already a turn in progress. If you're going straight back and need to start a "cut" you need to say which way. ;)

Ron3rd wrote:
All good advice above but I will give you a tip for the spotter that helps us;

We got into this in 2004 and I asked questions on this very forum about backing up a travel trailer.

My wife is a very good spotter but she's been doing it for hundreds of trips. We communicate by cell phone (when we can) and instead of saying, "go Right" or "go Left", she will say "PASSENGER" and "DRIVER" SIDE.

In other words, she does not say, "turn to the right". She will say, "start turning to the PASSENGER SIDE".

The Driver Side/Passenger Side lingo that was recommended here was one of the best tips I ever got.

That is always good. Then you don't fall into the "your left or my left" dilemma.

I also want to know from the start if you are telling me to turn the steering wheel OR the trailer - I've had people do both without identifying which they mean and it gets very annoying.

Rice - maybe it's just the wording you're using rather than your concept. I just find it very insulting to have someone treating me like a trained monkey rather than an intelligent human. I would rather learn how to back up and/or spot(when to turn and why, etc.) than just be given directions and a "just do as you're told and don't think". I find that makes for a much more satisfactory ending. And it means I learn how to back-up/spot and can do it properly at another time. It also means I can more easily spot an idiot who doesn't know what he/she is doing BEFORE I start doing what he/she says.

Fortunately my dad was good about teaching me how to do things and explaining why I should do it that way - it made me a far more independent and capable adult.

All good advice above but I will give you a tip for the spotter that helps us;

We got into this in 2004 and I asked questions on this very forum about backing up a travel trailer.

My wife is a very good spotter but she's been doing it for hundreds of trips. We communicate by cell phone (when we can) and instead of saying, "go Right" or "go Left", she will say "PASSENGER" and "DRIVER" SIDE.

In other words, she does not say, "turn to the right". She will say, "start turning to the PASSENGER SIDE".

The Driver Side/Passenger Side lingo that was recommended here was one of the best tips I ever got.

toedtoes wrote:
If someone believes that he is so knowledgeable that he can get the job done using a monkey - then have at it. Just don't expect other people to choose to "be your monkey".

I look at it from a different angle. Ask someone to be your monkey, to test whether you really know what you're doing.

It's a no-lose proposition for the monkey: either the expert really is an expert and the most efficient way to get the RV backed in is to follow his directions to the letter--yay! Problem solved! Or the expert makes a mess of it and the problem is identified and can be worked on, and it's obviously not the monkey's fault.

Surely we've all had the experience or seen where two people were "helping" guide an RV in--usually bystanders. That is never helpful, yet I think that is what is actually going on when you have a person driving and a person outside directing: two people making decisions on what the trajectory of the RV should be, with a resulting mish-mash of trajectories because sometimes the driver does what he thinks he should and sometimes he's following the spotter's directions.

One person needs to be making the decisions--preferably the one with more expertise.

Even "experts" make mistakes and "amateurs" often come up with new and more effective ways of doing things.

If someone believes that he is so knowledgeable that he can get the job done using a monkey - then have at it. Just don't expect other people to choose to "be your monkey".

Better to teach a man to fish...

toedtoes wrote:
Few people like to be told what to do. Especially when the one telling them thinks they are an "expert" and that they are so good that they can give those directions to any monkey and get it done right.

But is it the same if the one directing the wheel-turning really is an expert? Lord knows I don't like being told what to do, but if the person doing the telling is an expert, why would I have a problem with it?

I'm telling you--Mr. Rice could have a blind person back an RV into the tightest space perfectly, based solely on his verbal directions on how to turn the wheel. So he really is an expert, and I'm happy to defer completely to him.

If time is of the essence, I'll either have him do it himself (with me just being a second set of eyes), or I'll man the wheel while he tells me exactly what to do. Either way, it gets done right the first time.

If we're not rushed for time, I'll do it myself, with him spotting just to prevent disasters. But I'm nowhere near the backer he is, so it'll take more time. I like the practice, but there's no way I'll ever be as skilled as he is.

I've seen him back that thing into impossible places, and one that I regrettably missed was at a snowbird park in Phoenix with very narrow streets, 90-degree spaces, and our space was next to a park model with a carport on the line on one side, and on the other side there was a light pole right at the corner of the driveway, which left no room for error on the entry.

He pulled into the park by himself, and approached the site. A neighbor said that whenever people get that site, they go out and come back in from the other direction. So he did that. And then he backed the rig into the space by himself, in one shot, and the assembled crowd gave him a round of applause.

To the OP: I really do think you should try having your wife take the wheel, and just follow your explicit instructions. I actually think the problem comes from two different people trying to back it in at the same time--the person spotting and the person manning the wheel. They both have ideas about how to do it, and those ideas can conflict, but not necessarily in obvious ways.

In your first post, you gave the example of your having gone too far in one direction before she tells you you've gone too far. Maybe she just doesn't know. Sometimes Mr. Rice does things that don't look right to me, but they actually are, so if I'd told him to stop, it would have messed up what he was (correctly) doing.

So try having one person who solely directs the mission, and one person who executes it, and it sounds like it should be you directing and her the executing.

And again, I don't mean directing it as in "go left." I mean telling the person which way to turn the steering wheel and not to proceed until the director confirms that the RV's wheels are pointing the way they should, and then the RV moves until the director says to stop, and then the wheel is repositioned, and the RV moves, until it's in the site.

It will require using radios, but the person at the wheel shouldn't have much to say, if anything. Just do what the director says.

"Turn the steering wheel all the way to the left."

[Driver turns the steering wheel all the way to the left.]

"Okay, back up about ten feet."

[Driver backs up a bit.]

"Three more feet."

[Driver backs up slowly for a few feet.]

"Stop. Now bring your wheel to straight."

[Driver moves steering wheel in opposite direction and stops turning the wheel, but the wheels aren't straight yet.]

"You're not straight yet. Turn the wheel again."

[Driver turns the steering wheel and the RV's wheels are now straight.]

"Back up just a couple of feet."

[Driver backs up slowly.]

"Stop."

[Driver stops.]

"Now turn your wheel all the way to the right."

[Driver turns wheel all the way to the right.]

"Back up about 15 feet."

[Driver starts backing up.]

"You have six feet, three feet, two...stop."

[Driver stops.]

Now turn the wheel a little bit back to the left.

[Driver turns the steering wheel a little to the left, but it's not as far as it should be.]

"Turn it a little more."

[Driver turns it a little more, and keeps doing it until the director sees the wheels are pointing in the right direction and tells the driver it's good.]

Etc. Just like you're using a remote control to back it in.

Of course, there will be a problem if the person who thinks he knows how to do it isn't as skilled as he thinks he is, but that will become apparent pretty quick if all the driver does is follow directions. And if it turns out the person isn't all that skilled, then at least it's obvious who's the problem, and steps can be taken to fix the problem.

But again, I think the problem isn't just communication, but two people having in mind two different plans on the path the RV needs to take into the space. When hearing (or seeing a signal) "go left," one person may turn as hard left as possible right off the bat, while another may turn left as he's going, and these will put the RV in different places. Both are "go left" but they're not the same thing.

And that could happen even if both people walk the space and decide on the route in.

That's why I think it's better for one person to watch the RV and the wheels, and give directions that the other person simply follows.

But maybe I'm unique in just wanting the best possible result. I'm fine with acting like a trained monkey, just following directions, if that's the role that will get the job done.