How will this affect RVing. Very interesting video.

pnichols wrote:
Has anyone here researched how messy, complex, and detrimental to the environment it is to mine lithium and process it into batteries? I haven't .... but I'll bet that there's some eye opening stuff connected with this. Usually there are no free rides.

Well, mining anything is harmful to the environment and Lithium is no exception. But it is worth looking into as now that there is a market countries everywhere are finding it. It can also be extracted from sea water. Like anything else it needs to be regulated. Coal mining can also be defistating if not done properly.

I also think lithium will be replaced by other products. Some good reading on that as well.

Cheers.

Has anyone here researched how messy, complex, and detrimental to the environment it is to mine lithium and process it into batteries? I haven't .... but I'll bet that there's some eye opening stuff connected with this. Usually there are no free rides.

pnichols wrote:

time2roll wrote:
I current pay $2.80 for electricity to go 140 miles in my RAV4-EV.

I wonder how long a low rate like that will be the case - once all of us are married to using EVs and that's that only kind of vehicle we can buy?

Price of solar is still dropping and the sun's energy is virtually unlimited. Just a matter of capturing it.

I am far more excited about the cap on gasoline prices that switching most personal transportation to electric will bring.

North America are behind in adaptation of new technology in solar.
Watch this video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmyrbKBZ6SU

RPreeb wrote:

John & Angela wrote:

time2roll wrote:

pnichols wrote:
I wonder how long it will be before filling up your EV's electrical energy tank will cost only a little less than what it costs now for $2-$3/gallon gas?

I doubt we're ever going to be able to both - 1) buy an EV for the same approximate prices as today's vehicles, and 2) also refuel them for "way less" than what it costs today. The Powers That Be will always get their pound of flesh.

I current pay $2.80 for electricity to go 140 miles in my RAV4-EV.
How far do you go on a gallon gas or diesel?

In 40,000 miles I have paid ZERO in scheduled maintenance. ZERO.

Chevrolet Bolt and Telsa 3 are both priced only a few $$ more than the average new car selling for $33,560. You will recover any premium in the first couple years driving.

We are already at the tipping point and it has just barely started. I can hardly wait for an electric or even a hybrid RV or full size truck.

@time2roll.

Your numbers seem similar to ours. Don't laugh but we use our Costco run to compare costs to the good old days when we bought the liquid stuff. It is 110 KM return trip for us. Using our 120 volt power monitor when we charge it costs us 1.76 total for the return trip. However, at the time we were using a 110 volt charger. Since then we bought a 220 volt charger so there is an efficiency increase. I'll have to check it out someday but as you know it is kind of a plug and forget thing. My station sends me an email on how much power was used for the charge but I never pay attention. Next time. We don't go to Costco a lot.

When that Class A you drive becomes all electric, then the technology will have reached general practicality. Until then battery power is never going to be good for anything but strictly local driving. I love the idea, but getting the technology to that point, building the infrastructure to support it, and doing so without simply trading fossil fuel cars for fossil fuel supplied charging stations, is still far enough away that I won't have to worry about it in my lifetime. Then too, I live far enough out in the boonies that I need the relative independence that my F-150 gives me, even when I'm not towing my Jayco.

You bring up a good point re your F150 and your geographical situation. I also don't see a hundred percent solution in the next decade or so. Re your other point, I don't know. 220 mile (350 KM) range vehicles are now mainstream production at various price points. I would assume many people are like me and stop every couple hours for break. 20 minutes at a charge station with a Starbucks is a nice break for us and the Chihuahua. Not all highways are covered by DC fast chargers yet but the half way point is expected to be early 2018 so at that point a lot of "excuses" tend to go away for potential buyers. A test drive tends to get rid of the rest. Electric vehicles are a superior driving experience in every regard.

I hope you live a long happy life and have the opportunity to experience the changes coming.

Safe travels.

John

John & Angela wrote:

time2roll wrote:

pnichols wrote:
I wonder how long it will be before filling up your EV's electrical energy tank will cost only a little less than what it costs now for $2-$3/gallon gas?

I doubt we're ever going to be able to both - 1) buy an EV for the same approximate prices as today's vehicles, and 2) also refuel them for "way less" than what it costs today. The Powers That Be will always get their pound of flesh.

I current pay $2.80 for electricity to go 140 miles in my RAV4-EV.
How far do you go on a gallon gas or diesel?

In 40,000 miles I have paid ZERO in scheduled maintenance. ZERO.

Chevrolet Bolt and Telsa 3 are both priced only a few $$ more than the average new car selling for $33,560. You will recover any premium in the first couple years driving.

We are already at the tipping point and it has just barely started. I can hardly wait for an electric or even a hybrid RV or full size truck.

@time2roll.

Your numbers seem similar to ours. Don't laugh but we use our Costco run to compare costs to the good old days when we bought the liquid stuff. It is 110 KM return trip for us. Using our 120 volt power monitor when we charge it costs us 1.76 total for the return trip. However, at the time we were using a 110 volt charger. Since then we bought a 220 volt charger so there is an efficiency increase. I'll have to check it out someday but as you know it is kind of a plug and forget thing. My station sends me an email on how much power was used for the charge but I never pay attention. Next time. We don't go to Costco a lot.

When that Class A you drive becomes all electric, then the technology will have reached general practicality. Until then battery power is never going to be good for anything but strictly local driving. I love the idea, but getting the technology to that point, building the infrastructure to support it, and doing so without simply trading fossil fuel cars for fossil fuel supplied charging stations, is still far enough away that I won't have to worry about it in my lifetime. Then too, I live far enough out in the boonies that I need the relative independence that my F-150 gives me, even when I'm not towing my Jayco.

westernrvparkowner wrote:
Doubling will not and cannot continue. Just like you can double your savings every day for a limited time if you start at a dime, the math quickly catches up with you. As you say, do the math. You can't go a month doubling your saving every day starting with a dime, it gets into the millions of dollars. The low hanging fruit (the first dimes) are pretty much going to be picked quickly.
Much easier to rely on solar panels in Southern California, than it is in Montana where there is snow cover and overcast skies 6 months out of the year. While solar may in fact be able to provide power for a single family home in San Diego, it isn't going to serve a high rise apartment complex in Boston.
A two or three hundred mile range on a small electric car is fine for commuting 10 miles to work, but it doesn't help when I need a truck to take a 200 mile round trip hauling a couple of thousand pounds of material. On top of that, those ranges that electric vehicles can obtain diminish quickly when you factor in mountain climbs, sub zero temperatures and the need for heat.

Agree with all points and on the last one re the truck, the north American market is unique here in that pickups are a large part of the traffic mix on this continent. Pickups will be the last to fall and I suspect that is 10 years away as very little R and D has gone into making that happen for the simple reason there is no export market. Go to europe and they simply don't exist.

In two decades the grid will look a lot different but it won't happen overnight.

Doubling will not and cannot continue. Just like you can double your savings every day for a limited time if you start at a dime, the math quickly catches up with you. As you say, do the math. You can't go a month doubling your saving every day starting with a dime, it gets into the millions of dollars. The low hanging fruit (the first dimes) are pretty much going to be picked quickly.
Much easier to rely on solar panels in Southern California, than it is in Montana where there is snow cover and overcast skies 6 months out of the year. While solar may in fact be able to provide power for a single family home in San Diego, it isn't going to serve a high rise apartment complex in Boston.
A two or three hundred mile range on a small electric car is fine for commuting 10 miles to work, but it doesn't help when I need a truck to take a 200 mile round trip hauling a couple of thousand pounds of material. On top of that, those ranges that electric vehicles can obtain diminish quickly when you factor in mountain climbs, sub zero temperatures and the need for heat.

time2roll wrote:

pnichols wrote:
I wonder how long it will be before filling up your EV's electrical energy tank will cost only a little less than what it costs now for $2-$3/gallon gas?

I doubt we're ever going to be able to both - 1) buy an EV for the same approximate prices as today's vehicles, and 2) also refuel them for "way less" than what it costs today. The Powers That Be will always get their pound of flesh.

I current pay $2.80 for electricity to go 140 miles in my RAV4-EV.
How far do you go on a gallon gas or diesel?

In 40,000 miles I have paid ZERO in scheduled maintenance. ZERO.

Chevrolet Bolt and Telsa 3 are both priced only a few $$ more than the average new car selling for $33,560. You will recover any premium in the first couple years driving.

We are already at the tipping point and it has just barely started. I can hardly wait for an electric or even a hybrid RV or full size truck.

@time2roll.

Your numbers seem similar to ours. Don't laugh but we use our Costco run to compare costs to the good old days when we bought the liquid stuff. It is 110 KM return trip for us. Using our 120 volt power monitor when we charge it costs us 1.76 total for the return trip. However, at the time we were using a 110 volt charger. Since then we bought a 220 volt charger so there is an efficiency increase. I'll have to check it out someday but as you know it is kind of a plug and forget thing. My station sends me an email on how much power was used for the charge but I never pay attention. Next time. We don't go to Costco a lot.

pnichols wrote:

time2roll wrote:
I current pay $2.80 for electricity to go 140 miles in my RAV4-EV.

I wonder how long a low rate like that will be the case - once all of us are married to using EVs and that's that only kind of vehicle we can buy?

A related issue: How come in some states that have high amounts of solar added into power companies' power source mix - the overall cost to end consumers per KWH continues to increase? It seems like it should be the other way around if solar energy is cheaper to source than fossil fuel energy.

Good morning. I don't think its cheaper yet. Its getting closer and will soon be cheaper than coal but has a 3 or 4 years to get to natural gas cost levels. And of course integration costs will be around for awhile. Honestly this is just speculation on my part. My province is more than 95 percent hydro power and it is a government owned utility so we won't see how this plays out on a local level. California though will face all these challenges and will be interesting to watch. Morocco is another model to watch but most of the info is in French for obvious reasons.

As far as how long will rates stay low in comparison to gas or diesel, hard to say but one thing to bear in mind. You can't drill and oil well in your back yard and produce gas. You can purchase solar at ever cheaper rates and put them up on your property. If utilities don't compete with that people will just disconnect from the grid. This is already happening at a small level. You can literally buy a complete ready to setup car charging station 100 percent powered from solar. Truck and crane show up, set it up, and they are gone. It weighs many tons so it can't blow over and tracks the sun through the day. Literally not connected to anything. Contains the battery, inverter interface, etc. Charges all day and when you get home you park on it and it charges your car. San diego based company. Expensive though. 40,000 grand set up. But no doubt will get a lot cheaper as the technology matures. Their first ones were 70,000 a few years ago. Heres the link.



http://www.plugincars.com/here-now-worlds-first-portable-self-contained-solar-ev-charging-station-128015.html