Lippert Frames

goducks10 wrote:
Unless you read these forums you won't even know, much less care who made the frame. The sales guy will throw his pitch about the unit and off you go with it in tow.

'Zactly! I guess his point was in a perfect world what would people do? I don't get it. Doesn't matter, the world of RV's is far from perfect. You get what you get and deal with it after the fact, many times out of your own pocket and time. Sure would be nice to get the value we are told we're getting for a change.

Unless you read these forums you won't even know, much less care who made the frame. The sales guy will throw his pitch about the unit and off you go with it in tow.

fj12ryder wrote:

mosseater wrote:
I'll say it again: they're going to build components. It doesn't cost anymore to do it right than to do it wrong. Simple concept.

Maybe, maybe not. If a buyer says "I will pay X dollars for the frame built to these specs" and it would cost you X dollars to build it that way, but you know it won't last unless it is built stronger with better material, but that will cost more than X dollars.

Now which way will that frame be built?

You throw that out there as if we buyers have some inside notion or choice in how the frame of any given RV is built. As if we can choose a frame based on our usage. We can, and we don't. We have neither the engineering background or costing figures to be able to make the choice beforehand. The frame is designed to work with the given trailer and that's all we're supposing. The presumption is ridiculous.

All we know (or at least we hope for) is that an RV for sale on the open market should be up to the task of performing what the product is supposed to be for, ie, supporting the trailer for safe travel. Note the name, "travel trailer". IOW, it should be able to travel the highways at it's rated load under reasonable road conditions without failing in any of the ways average RVers have seen them fail. Even if that fail happens to be extreme tire wear due to inaccurate alignment from the factory. The idea that most folks would choose a lesser frame than one that's up to the task if money were the main criteria is silly.

mosseater wrote:
I'll say it again: they're going to build components. It doesn't cost anymore to do it right than to do it wrong. Simple concept.

Maybe, maybe not. If a buyer says "I will pay X dollars for the frame built to these specs" and it would cost you X dollars to build it that way, but you know it won't last unless it is built stronger with better material, but that will cost more than X dollars.

Now which way will that frame be built?

Bandaid wrote:
Guess I'll jump in here as well. I've had three fifth wheels, all of which have had Lippert frames under them. The first unit had pin box flex problems. I was one of many and fortunately, my pin box did not tear out before I had a structural engineer design a retro fit kit to strengthen it! That said, I did have the camber go out of one frame I beam, which caused a weld to break inside a wall. The repair cost over 18K and required the beam to be cut, jacked back into spec and a plate welded over the cut!
When I contacted Lippert about the pin box flex, they indicated they just build the frames to the manufacturers specs. I asked if they had engineers who checked over the plans and was told no. It is a manufacturers problem. In other words, pass the buck!
My second fifth had so many other warranty / quality related issues, I did not own it long enough to have frame problems, although after two years, I had to replace the tires, as the axles were out of alignment and caused premature tire wear!
Now I'm on my third, a 2014 fifth wheel. While I have not had any frame issues yet, I know of several people who have. Recently, I had the MORryde SRE4000 suspension system installed. In preparation for that, I designed up two additional frame cross braces. The trailer was designed without any! While installing them, I found all four of the spring hangers to be welded seemingly anyplace close to where they should be. I had to make individual shims to take up the space, as much as 1/4" I don't know how they expect to align the axles, but I'm expecting to see tire wear quickly. I doubt complaining to the manufacturer, or Lippert will cause them to agree to cut the spring hangers loose and reposition them. More than likely, I will have to find a frame shop locally that can do that work.
Bottom line is there is no oversight in an industry that produces a product that we pay high prices for. It is sad true fact and the ability to trust in a quality product coming from them, no matter who the manufacturer is, really is not there. It is a 50 - 50 chance that you will get a unit free from "defective engineering and workmanship.

Bandaid

Wow!! If I had that many problems with my hobby I'd take up another hobby. :)

I'll say it again: they're going to build components. It doesn't cost anymore to do it right than to do it wrong. Simple concept.

Allworth wrote:
Popcorn! More popcorn!

Side note: If Lippert products were really as bad as some would have us believe, there would be thousands of RV's sitting along side the road all over the interstate system. At least three of four per mile.

QC is entirely based on allowable percentage failure rate. Money
talks!

It's not about catastrophic failure, its about all the******that goes wrong and needs fixed. 1000's of trailers have Lippert. Just go read on all the brand forums about the trouble everyone is having. Then figure how many people don't post on forums that have problems. Lippert is like cancer in the RV industry. They're buying up other companies at a pretty good rate. Just go to Lipperts site and see all the stuff they have their hands in.

Here's a list off the Grand Design site that lists all the manufactures that supply parts for the Reflection 5th wheels. It's not just about frames.
http://www.granddesignrv.com/pdf/service_pdfs/Component%20Mfg%20Contact%20Info_Reflection.pdf

Lippert has the biggest piece of the pie in regards to part suppliers. You can look at it two ways. Yes their higher percentage of content in the build makes them more susceptible. But that doesn't mean they need to make junk.

Guess I'll jump in here as well. I've had three fifth wheels, all of which have had Lippert frames under them. The first unit had pin box flex problems. I was one of many and fortunately, my pin box did not tear out before I had a structural engineer design a retro fit kit to strengthen it! That said, I did have the camber go out of one frame I beam, which caused a weld to break inside a wall. The repair cost over 18K and required the beam to be cut, jacked back into spec and a plate welded over the cut!
When I contacted Lippert about the pin box flex, they indicated they just build the frames to the manufacturers specs. I asked if they had engineers who checked over the plans and was told no. It is a manufacturers problem. In other words, pass the buck!
My second fifth had so many other warranty / quality related issues, I did not own it long enough to have frame problems, although after two years, I had to replace the tires, as the axles were out of alignment and caused premature tire wear!
Now I'm on my third, a 2014 fifth wheel. While I have not had any frame issues yet, I know of several people who have. Recently, I had the MORryde SRE4000 suspension system installed. In preparation for that, I designed up two additional frame cross braces. The trailer was designed without any! While installing them, I found all four of the spring hangers to be welded seemingly anyplace close to where they should be. I had to make individual shims to take up the space, as much as 1/4" I don't know how they expect to align the axles, but I'm expecting to see tire wear quickly. I doubt complaining to the manufacturer, or Lippert will cause them to agree to cut the spring hangers loose and reposition them. More than likely, I will have to find a frame shop locally that can do that work.
Bottom line is there is no oversight in an industry that produces a product that we pay high prices for. It is sad true fact and the ability to trust in a quality product coming from them, no matter who the manufacturer is, really is not there. It is a 50 - 50 chance that you will get a unit free from "defective engineering and workmanship.

Bandaid

Allworth wrote:
Popcorn! More popcorn!

Side note: If Lippert products were really as bad as some would have us believe, there would be thousands of RV's sitting along side the road all over the interstate system. At least three of four per mile.

QC is entirely based on allowable percentage failure rate. Money talks!

Ha, ha, along with Chinese tires and SRW Trucks! Damn, I'm getting scared just to get out of bed in the morning. Oh, please all you guys with SRW trucks make sure to let me know your travel plans or I'll might just stay in bed. LOL. Oh, and you guys without bed savers!

mosseater wrote:
You might not have cause to bad-mouth Lippert. I do.

Sure but that can be said with most anything. I have friends who have had nothing but trouble with numerous Chrysler vehicles along with poor warranty issues in handling those issues. But I myself and many others have had no such experiences. My experience with Lippert has been good. I had some issues and they took care of them under warranty. Like any product, some people have troubles, most do not.

Fact is that the majority of trailers on the road have Lippert frames and most do not have any issues.