New to the forum (1st post), new to towing, but not new to RV'ing (did a 6wks 10,000mls round-trip cross-country to Alaska in a 21ft Toyota Winnebago)Firstly, I don't have a motorhome yet, but I like a 1985 Winnebago Elandan. Let's assume for this exercise, it was already mine.I know my Honda Fit (2500lbs) is towable and can/will be equipped with supplemental brakes. Secondly, I understand that 4-down towing adds no vertical weight other than the tongue weight to the Tow vehicle, so the GVWR is not affected. I also understand that the toad/bar is mass that needs to be braked and accelerated, so it adds to the GCWR.Here's my problem: a 1985 Winnebago Elandan has a GVWR of 14,500lbs, the curb weight is 12,800lbs. The toad plus tow bar will be say 3,200lbs. Winnebago Industries is not specifying GCWR (at least I couldn't find a number), so where does that leave me in terms of legally towing the Honda? The GCWR looks like 17,700lbs:Toad with Blue Ox tow bar - 3,200lbsGVWR Winnebago - 14,500lbsCan somebody shed some light: does that sound right and is it legal?Thanks, Stephen

you need to add one more equation, will the transmission hold up tow your Honda

The Honda is a standard 5-speed, no trouble towing there. It is also listed in the 2014 Toad Guide,

StephenB2556 wrote: The toad plus tow bar will be say 3,200lbs. Winnebago Industries is not specifying GCWR (at least I couldn't find a number), so where does that leave me in terms of legally towing the Honda? Contrary to popular opinion, and at the risk of starting a firestorm of dissent: There's no "legal" standard per towing capacity- numbers given by manufacturers are just vehicle capability. Lacking that number from Winnebago, you'll have to work backwards from the equipment itself. First thing I'd look at is the hitch, if there is one. That would obviously have to have sufficient capacity. After that, you might take advantage of Changing Gears' tow calculator, which allows for the entry of various component figures and spits out a number. It's designed for travel trailers, but I see no reason why it can't be used in this scenario. Do note that components addressed there are mainly axles- capacity of the engine to pull the weight would have to be addressed elsewhere. Here's the link

I don't think it is a legal issue, unless you are somewhere that GCWR is used for tax/license purposes.At 14,500 GVWR, the chassis was a P-series (the G-30 went only to 12,300). In later years, GM made a practice of rating GCWR = GVWR + 3500 for the P-series chassis in RV applications. I have not found any documents for the 1980s. GCWRs for Class 3 GM cab-chassis with the 454 were typically in the 16,000-19,000 range, could go higher with gearing and manual transmission choices. The RVs got automatics only (TH-400).I don't think many manufacturers did tow ratings for gas motorhomes in the 1980s. Towing a dinghy was something that developed a little later as RV lifestyles evolved from vacation travel toward full time living. As that happened, RV manufacturers started using chassis with better power to weight and overall size grew as well.

The motorhome definitely has a chassis based GCWR on a sticker usually above the drivers seat. The calculation is the same for all vehicles "Actual" MH weight combined with the "Actual" toad weight must be less than the GCWR period. "Actual" means weighed at a scale when loaded for travel.

Motorhome with towing capabilities - how do I approach this?

old_guy
Explorer
Oct 21, 2014
you need to add one more equation, will the transmission hold up tow your Honda
StephenB2556
Explorer
Oct 21, 2014
The Honda is a standard 5-speed, no trouble towing there. It is also listed in the 2014 Toad Guide,
Francesca_Knowl
Explorer
Oct 21, 2014
StephenB2556 wrote:
The toad plus tow bar will be say 3,200lbs. Winnebago Industries is not specifying GCWR (at least I couldn't find a number), so where does that leave me in terms of legally towing the Honda?

Contrary to popular opinion, and at the risk of starting a firestorm of dissent: There's no "legal" standard per towing capacity- numbers given by manufacturers are just vehicle capability. Lacking that number from Winnebago, you'll have to work backwards from the equipment itself.

First thing I'd look at is the hitch, if there is one. That would obviously have to have sufficient capacity. After that, you might take advantage of Changing Gears' tow calculator, which allows for the entry of various component figures and spits out a number. It's designed for travel trailers, but I see no reason why it can't be used in this scenario. Do note that components addressed there are mainly axles- capacity of the engine to pull the weight would have to be addressed elsewhere. Here's the link
tatest
Explorer II
Oct 21, 2014
I don't think it is a legal issue, unless you are somewhere that GCWR is used for tax/license purposes.

At 14,500 GVWR, the chassis was a P-series (the G-30 went only to 12,300). In later years, GM made a practice of rating GCWR = GVWR + 3500 for the P-series chassis in RV applications.

I have not found any documents for the 1980s. GCWRs for Class 3 GM cab-chassis with the 454 were typically in the 16,000-19,000 range, could go higher with gearing and manual transmission choices. The RVs got automatics only (TH-400).

I don't think many manufacturers did tow ratings for gas motorhomes in the 1980s. Towing a dinghy was something that developed a little later as RV lifestyles evolved from vacation travel toward full time living. As that happened, RV manufacturers started using chassis with better power to weight and overall size grew as well.
sch911
Explorer
Oct 22, 2014
The motorhome definitely has a chassis based GCWR on a sticker usually above the drivers seat. The calculation is the same for all vehicles "Actual" MH weight combined with the "Actual" toad weight must be less than the GCWR period. "Actual" means weighed at a scale when loaded for travel.
blt2ski
Moderator
Oct 22, 2014
1980's typical GCWR for a 454 is 14500 for 3.73, 16K for 4.10 and 19K for a 4.56. Later years when the vortec version hit the streets about 95 or so, then the warranty ratings went up 500-1000 lbs or so. Why do I say warranty ratings.....well, it is just that, a warranty rating where if over this amount, GM, For etal can deny you warranty work done. As noted, there is no legal standing from ANY state, federal level as to you have to follow this amount.

Where you will have to be, is as you note, your toad does have brakes that function. WHich is good, some states require ANY "towed" item to have brakes over 1500 to as much as 4500 lbs. Wa st where I am, it is 1500-4500 or 40% of the tow rig gvwr. I personally would not recomend towing a trailer that puts you much over about 1000 lbs of gvwr, then after this, you do notice a serious lack of braking power, even if legal per say.

Have fun with the setup.

marty
mkirsch
Nomad II
Oct 23, 2014
GCWR is commonly found in the vehicle owner's manual, and is read off a chart based on chassis type, engine, transmission, and axle ratio.

It is largely a performance/warranty number, the maximum weight at which the performance of the vehicle will be acceptable to the general public, and the maximum weight at which the manufacturer is willing to warranty the vehicle.

Towing a small aerodynamic car behind a rolling barn like your Winnebago, you will hardly notice a difference from running empty.

It is perfectly legal, at least in the USA. The only law that really applies is the 20,000lb per single axle law, but if you have a 1985 Winnebago loaded to 20,000lbs per axle, it is not going anywhere anyway.
StephenB2556
Explorer
Oct 27, 2014
Thanks everybody for their input. You have given me all the info I needed.

Stephen
timmac
Explorer
Oct 29, 2014
Honda Fit (2500lbs) flat towed behind a class A motorhome will be just fine and I see no weight issues, its only pulling the car not carrying the car, almost zero tongue weight..

But a 1985 motorhome "motor and transmission" might have a problem with the extra pulling weight.
StephenB2556
Explorer
Oct 29, 2014
timmac wrote:
Honda Fit (2500lbs) flat towed behind a class A motorhome will be just fine and I see no weight issues, its only pulling the car not carrying the car, almost zero tongue weight..

But a 1985 motorhome "motor and transmission" might have a problem with the extra pulling weight.

That's exactly what I was afraid about! Can I get a rig like that to stop in an emergency situation? I guess not ... hence a need for supplemental brakes. Still leaves the problem of (surely) being over the Mfg recommended GCWR. The insurance will have a field day if the worst happens, supplemental brakes or not. Maybe my dream ends here and back to a TT or Fiver it goes. I always liked the Airstreams but they also demand a well sized tow vehicle.