narcissistic personality disorder

DownTheAvenue wrote:

Dick_B wrote:
Someone I know has a Narcissistic personality disorder. The worst part of this situation is that the person does not think they have it...

Sounds like an armchair diagnosis.

And how does that help answer the OP's question? Grow up!

A priest once told me "You can't pick your family". I feel the message he was sending is that you don't have to be close to those kind of people and that the healthy thing to do somwtimes is just to distance yourself from them.

My older brother is so unstable (anger issues) that my parents mad me executor of thier estates. That pushed him over the edge and sadly, I suspect the only time I will hear from his side of the family again is when he dies so I can release any intrest in his estate.

In my opinion, EVERYONE should complete an Advanced Health Care Directive as soon as possible regardless of your age. In Calif you can go to any Passages Program or any hospital and pick up a blank AHCD and fill out it out. You must have to people/friends who are not related to you to witness and sign it. There is no cost to you. Everyone in your family should have a copy, one should go into a safe deposit box at your bank, one should be in an envelope and attached to your refrigerator in case medical/police people have to come to your house and finally you should carry a copy in each of your vechicles.
When your parents are older, you should make sure you are also listed as having power of attorney on all their financial accounts while they still have "legal capacity".

Ombudsman

As mine were my only family members alive, I ended up specifically barring them from having any say or control of me, my health care, or my finances. It's all part of my living trust. Now I don't have to worry that I will be mistreated like my dad was.

toedtoes wrote:
As mine were my only family members alive, I ended up specifically barring them from having any say or control of me, my health care, or my finances. It's all part of my living trust. Now I don't have to worry that I will be mistreated like my dad was.

This is good advice.
Due to a badly self written will, I got and expensive legal lesson from my attorney with my uncles estate of which I was the executor. One of the things I learned is you can't just leave someone out of these kinds of documents. You have to SPECIFICALLY state that they are not allowed to do something or that they are to get nothing.
But the biggest thing I learned is that the law is NOT a DIY project. Have a lawyer write these things up for you and avoid on-line legal documents - especially wills. A tiny mistake can cost you everything.
The most surprising thing I learned is how easily a judge will throw out or over-ride a will. You'd think this would be almost sacraligeous but it happens all the time.

In my case, everyone involved was agreeable so my lesson only cost me $15K in extra work. Had there been an argument, who knows.

Yep. I did a revokable living trust rather than a straight will. It includes POA for medical and POA for financial. I felt so much better once it was done. Once it was done, I walked around saying "now I can be young again".


Speaking of wills, a few things I have learned:

If you separate, change your will (and beneficiary info on accounts) immediately. You can always change it back if you reconcile. But if you die without changing it, your estranged spouse can get everything.

If you have kids from a prior relationship, make sure you include your intentions for them in your will. Do not depend on your current significant other to follow through with any verbal wishes. It's really easy to say "of course they'll get their share" when you are alive - and it is most always sincere. But when you die, the connection between your kids and the new relationship is gone and it's much harder to give away what is actually in your hands.

Don't make the executor one of the beneficiaries. It's too easy for things to devolve into war. Instead choose someone outside the family with no stake in the outcome.

And if you don't want to leave anything to someone, don't leave them a dollar - that gives them something to fight with. Instead, identify them and state they are to get nothing.

Difficult subject... There are a lot of armchair psyche doctors out there, so be careful who you listen to.

This is a very awkward subject, especially for the narcissistic person involved who, like you say, does not believe they have anything wrong with them.

Dick, I was married to a severe narcissist for 34 years. It was a very horrible situation. She was, in addition to being a narcissist, a pathological liar. It was a very deadly ,caustic situation to live with.

It took me a lot of years to come to terms with this, after trying everything I could to make my marriage survive. Nothing works, nothing. The narcissist truly believes that they are perfect and everyone else has the problem. If you confront them on their lies and made up stories, they will dig in their heels and have a meltdown. The screaming, the swearing, the verbal abuse is unfathomable. They will stop at nothing to get their way.

And the narcissist does not care who they trample on or hurt to get their way. They put themselves above others and again, truly believe they are better, and the all knowing expert on any subject. They make up stories to make themselves look good. They lie, they cheat, and many of them steal. While they steal, they justify it by finding entitlement to what ever they take, using any reason.

Dick, I lived this for 34 years. It's bad, really bad.

I could go on and write a book about this. But somebody already did...

My best thoughts I can offer you is that there really is no cure. There is nothing you can do. I don't know how close this person is to you but you must protect yourself by not allowing them to in any way control you or get into your space. This is a very deep and complex thing. If you must interact with this person, keep it arms length. They will lie about you to everyone behind your back. I know this as fact from first hand experience.

This woman is the mother to my 4 wonderful children, and she was a darn good mother to our kids, really good. She has so many excellent qualities and traits and treated our children very well..... But the narcissist part created a lot of problems over the years in our family unit. I could go on for pages, but won't.

She even visits this forum to keep tabs on me, see what I'm doing, what I write on here. Unbelievable....

After 34 years, my children were adults, moved out and with lives of their own. After the patience of Job, and giving her more chances than I ever should have, I packed up my stuff, hooked up my TT and left. I filed for divorce soon after. Even that was living h... (hot place). Not her idea, therefore she had to fight me all the way on it. Sickening... Narcissists must have the upper hand, the final say, it has to be their idea.

There is an excellent book that came recommended to me. I bought it and read it. It has some incredible information in its pages and offers a lot if insight into this disorder. In that book are multiple quizzes you can print and check off yes/no answers to, with a score guide at the end.

Dangerous Personalities by Joe Navarro.

I bought it as an ebook for my iPad. I got the Kindle app to read it with.
I highly recommend you check this out, do a google search for this book. The book will tell you more than any of us here can.

Good luck, you'll need it!

You cannot change people that do not want to change.
You can change friends.

Without trying to be an arm chair psychiatrist, there is an old movie from the 40's called Gaslight with Ingrid Bergman and Charles Boyer that will help you under stand this behavior better. Sometimes it is hard to recognize especially in the beginning of a relationship.

Gaslighting is a big thing - not usually to the extent of the movie. I had neighbors and the man had NPD. He would remain very calm and "normal" and would say things to her so she'd get hysterical and then he'd look around at people as if to say "see she's crazy". I couldn't help her, but her teen daughter used to take refuge in my home. He'd walk around the house peering in the windows trying to get us both hysterical. I could see what he was doing and called the police and he'd try to manipulate them.

My sibling on the other hand didn't play the gaslight game. You weren't worth her effort - well actually you just ceased to exist when she didn't want something from you.

My younger sibling plays the manipulation. Funny that both my dad and my NPD sibling would fall for it. That's why she worked so hard to get me disinherited - because I was the only one, since my Mom died, who could see through her games.

I figure the two of them deserve each other. Wonder which one will abuse the other in their old age...