New 30ft Trailer Towing Experience
Picked up our 2016 Sunset Trail 270BH from Manteca and towed it back to Reno using our 2014 Toyota Sequoia Platinum with 113t P rated Michelin LTX Defenders aired up to 42psi (max 44) and an Equalizer...
Forum Discussion
I understand how my posting about this could be construed as justification for a marginal setup...I fully understand that.
Let me be clear, I have zero interest in justifying that. I could tow overweight all day and nobody would know the difference, I don't have to post here. My reason for posting was because this is a public forum, and there is very little about towing with a Sequoia....it's strengths AND it's weaknesses. I only post this to put out information for others. My thoroughness is for an abundance of caution, not for an abundance of justification.
Any setup can be improperly setup and be unsafe. Any towing setup needs to be setup correctly. A 1 ton truck can cover up improper setups. It is not just being overweight that makes setups unsafe. The youtube video with the dually towing the TT that flipped is a perfect example. That guy was obviously within all his towing weights by a large margin, but still didn't have a safe rig. That being said, once it hit the fan that dually stayed upright protecting the occupants, an SUV or swr rig would most likely not have stayed upright. That being said, it is a small miracle there wasn't a secondary collision. Maybe that was TOO much truck that made it unsafe, it gave someone OVER confidence in their trucks towing ability, and almost resulted in a serious injury.
For the record I have yet to tow this rig with all of us on board, so I've never been within 150 lbs of my max payload, and more often than not 250 lbs under. So I'm curious how I am "over capacity".
Am I limited? You betcha, the payload capacity sucks. Would I trade the air and electronic suspension, and 4wd for additional payload capacity? Not a chance. I'm fine with keeping my pencil sharp.
I've had "lesser" trucks. I understand the seemingly million options and potential weak spots with the big 3, I've owned them, or towed with them. I spent my early years on a farm towing with 3/4 and 1 ton trucks, both srw and drw, triple towing ammonia tanks, live hogs, goose neck hay trailers, etc. Rear axle weight, payload, hitch capacity, smallish engine. This "truck" with a 4.3 axle WITH a 6 speed tranny, factory air suspension, 380hp/400lbs torque, electronic sway control, electronic ride control, tow mode that actually does more than change shift points, is a great tow vehicle......IF you live with the crippling payload capacity.
No I can't haul 6 people while towing, but I can't do that in almost any truck either....but I sure can the other 90% of the time when I'm NOT towing.
This Sequoia failed one of the J2807 standards at 7001 lbs. And an F250 failed it possibly the same way at 12,001(?) lbs. Whether that was handling, braking, or hill climbing with two pax with full blast AC running at 100 degrees per the SAE specs. This truck being SAE certified is why I sold my beautiful Denali XL for this. The tow ratings were a joke, I could tell towing over 1000 lbs under it's max "rating". The same "ratings" others are saying are safe for other tow rigs.
Again, I tow in Reno, 5000 ft. Tow a 6000 lb boat over a 9000 or 7500 ft pass to Tahoe almost every weekend in the summer, starting in 95 degree heat. This camper has been above 7000 ft twice already, and more importantly back down. This isn't Florida type towing. If there was a weakness in this trucks abilities, I would have seen it. The temp gauges never move. Rarely is the pedal ever floored. Not even possible to overload the rear axle when staying within payload limits. My payload is the only thing I have to watch....no rear axle concerns, no GCVR concerns.
My secondary point is to bring attention to the SAE specs. That's short for Society of Automotive Engineers. Actual Engineers, not some guy like me or other forum expert preaching about what is safe. According to the independent ENGINEERS I meet or am significantly below the same limits with my rig as a 3/4 ton guy is being 100lbs under his payload.
I'm not convincing anyone of anything. I'm the most conservative guy in my group. I'm the safety chairman for my aviation job. I'm a pilot by trade, and deal with weight and balance every leg. I know the formulas by heart. When my math is wrong on a plane, you crash instantly, you don't get 3 or 4 miles to determine something doesn't "feel right". If some of these guys were pilots, they would never get off the ground, saying they needed 10,000 ft of runway, when the books say 6,000 is fine...WITH a safety margin already built in.
Just sharing my experiences with a Sequoia towing under the SAE 7000lb limits, which USED to be 10,000lbs. If my rig was a 2009 I'd be 3,800 lbs under it's max tow limit. Same truck, same engine, same axle. Which makes me think about how safe someone is when towing with an Expedition that ISN'T certified. If the numbers were close why wouldn't they certify. The reason is because they aren't close.
Like the guy said above, we all need to learn everything about our own setups.
Let me be clear, I have zero interest in justifying that. I could tow overweight all day and nobody would know the difference, I don't have to post here. My reason for posting was because this is a public forum, and there is very little about towing with a Sequoia....it's strengths AND it's weaknesses. I only post this to put out information for others. My thoroughness is for an abundance of caution, not for an abundance of justification.
Any setup can be improperly setup and be unsafe. Any towing setup needs to be setup correctly. A 1 ton truck can cover up improper setups. It is not just being overweight that makes setups unsafe. The youtube video with the dually towing the TT that flipped is a perfect example. That guy was obviously within all his towing weights by a large margin, but still didn't have a safe rig. That being said, once it hit the fan that dually stayed upright protecting the occupants, an SUV or swr rig would most likely not have stayed upright. That being said, it is a small miracle there wasn't a secondary collision. Maybe that was TOO much truck that made it unsafe, it gave someone OVER confidence in their trucks towing ability, and almost resulted in a serious injury.
For the record I have yet to tow this rig with all of us on board, so I've never been within 150 lbs of my max payload, and more often than not 250 lbs under. So I'm curious how I am "over capacity".
Am I limited? You betcha, the payload capacity sucks. Would I trade the air and electronic suspension, and 4wd for additional payload capacity? Not a chance. I'm fine with keeping my pencil sharp.
I've had "lesser" trucks. I understand the seemingly million options and potential weak spots with the big 3, I've owned them, or towed with them. I spent my early years on a farm towing with 3/4 and 1 ton trucks, both srw and drw, triple towing ammonia tanks, live hogs, goose neck hay trailers, etc. Rear axle weight, payload, hitch capacity, smallish engine. This "truck" with a 4.3 axle WITH a 6 speed tranny, factory air suspension, 380hp/400lbs torque, electronic sway control, electronic ride control, tow mode that actually does more than change shift points, is a great tow vehicle......IF you live with the crippling payload capacity.
No I can't haul 6 people while towing, but I can't do that in almost any truck either....but I sure can the other 90% of the time when I'm NOT towing.
This Sequoia failed one of the J2807 standards at 7001 lbs. And an F250 failed it possibly the same way at 12,001(?) lbs. Whether that was handling, braking, or hill climbing with two pax with full blast AC running at 100 degrees per the SAE specs. This truck being SAE certified is why I sold my beautiful Denali XL for this. The tow ratings were a joke, I could tell towing over 1000 lbs under it's max "rating". The same "ratings" others are saying are safe for other tow rigs.
Again, I tow in Reno, 5000 ft. Tow a 6000 lb boat over a 9000 or 7500 ft pass to Tahoe almost every weekend in the summer, starting in 95 degree heat. This camper has been above 7000 ft twice already, and more importantly back down. This isn't Florida type towing. If there was a weakness in this trucks abilities, I would have seen it. The temp gauges never move. Rarely is the pedal ever floored. Not even possible to overload the rear axle when staying within payload limits. My payload is the only thing I have to watch....no rear axle concerns, no GCVR concerns.
My secondary point is to bring attention to the SAE specs. That's short for Society of Automotive Engineers. Actual Engineers, not some guy like me or other forum expert preaching about what is safe. According to the independent ENGINEERS I meet or am significantly below the same limits with my rig as a 3/4 ton guy is being 100lbs under his payload.
I'm not convincing anyone of anything. I'm the most conservative guy in my group. I'm the safety chairman for my aviation job. I'm a pilot by trade, and deal with weight and balance every leg. I know the formulas by heart. When my math is wrong on a plane, you crash instantly, you don't get 3 or 4 miles to determine something doesn't "feel right". If some of these guys were pilots, they would never get off the ground, saying they needed 10,000 ft of runway, when the books say 6,000 is fine...WITH a safety margin already built in.
Just sharing my experiences with a Sequoia towing under the SAE 7000lb limits, which USED to be 10,000lbs. If my rig was a 2009 I'd be 3,800 lbs under it's max tow limit. Same truck, same engine, same axle. Which makes me think about how safe someone is when towing with an Expedition that ISN'T certified. If the numbers were close why wouldn't they certify. The reason is because they aren't close.
Like the guy said above, we all need to learn everything about our own setups.
