Forum Discussion

bmupton's avatar
bmupton
Explorer
Jul 03, 2014

Overloaded circuits

It's been a while since I've posted here...Just didn't have anything interesting to add to any of the conversations. Anyhow, this came up recently when we had a battery problem that caused the battery charger to have a higher than usual load which in turn caused the breaker to trip...read on for the whole "saga"...

My 2013 Zinger ZT33BH has (had, actually, more on that later) six breakers. 'Main', 'front', 'back', 'wtr heater', 'micro' and 'A/C'. The main is 30A, the A/C is 20, and the rest are 15. 'Front' has the 12V converter/battery charger and 13 receptacles wired to it. 'Back' has two receptacles wired to it. The rest are self-explanatory.

The two receptacles wired to the 'back' are the GFCI plug in the kitchen and the outlet that the main fridge plugs in to (outside in the compartment behind the fridge.) The 13 outlets wired to the 'front' breaker are the GFCI in the bathroom, and 12 outlets throughout the rest of the trailer (All protected by the bathroom GFCI receptacle.)

Don't get me started on the naming of the circuits...

When the breaker tripped, I noticed the lights get really dim and pretty much the entire trailer went dead except for the main fridge. I reset the breaker and about 30 seconds later it tripped again. So, I shut off every appliance I could (an outside fridge, a water cooler, an ice maker and a TV.) Reset it again and it stayed on. Went and checked the battery since the lights were very dim, and the cables were quite hot and my panel inside registered that the battery was empty. Disconnected the battery since it seemed like it was faulty (it spent winter outside so I'm betting it sustained some damage. The water was full in it, so it wasn't boiled off or anything) and just let the converter power the 12V system for the rest of the evening.

So at this point I have the converter and 13 outlets on a single circuit which is definitely too many devices on one breaker. I headed down to my RV store and picked up a new breaker (this one) and pulled the cover off the panel. The breaker labelled 'front' I pulled the wires from, untwisted the marrette and put the converter on one side of the new breaker and the AC circuit on the other, leaving the old breaker with nothing attached (it had been popped a number of times already so I figured it was getting weak and decided to just leave it out of the system entirely.)

I can now run all my AC appliances and the converter without worrying about tripping breakers. I still can't run a hair dryer in the trailer because it's just too much load on that 15A circuit, but we solved that problem by using a heavy duty extension cord run back to the pedestal and just through an open window when DW needs to dry her hair.

I post mostly because this appears to be a fairly common theme with these trailers, and this is a pretty simple fix to the problem. If you're having similar issues, it's definitely a place to start looking.
  • trailerbikecamper wrote:
    Rgar is most likely right. I don't know about NEC but CEC here in Canda, states that a max of 12 devices (lights, outlets etc) are allowed in a circuit unless specific loads are known, allowing for more outlets.

    Not sure how CEC applies to RV's though. But I'm also thinking that from the description it sounds like multiple conductors are connected to a single breaker. This is also not allowed under CEC.


    That rule of 12 is also a maximum and the book I have (the Canadian Simplified Electrical Code) actually recommends less if it's a circuit with all outlets. When I did my basement at home I think I put a max of 8 outlets per breaker. Where I went right to 12 was lighting.

    I think all that is moot, however, as these manufacturers are all in the USA, and from what I gather follow a "relaxed" version of the NEC because the structure is considered temporary.
  • The trailer only has 15 outlets altogether. They could have put 6 of them on the other breaker, and added a breaker for the converter and all would have been right. Especially since the circuits were named 'front' and 'back' I didn't in a million years think that 'front' meant 'the entire damn trailer' and back meant 'just these two outlets in the kitchen slide'.

    At the end of the day, I've got a solution to my main problem of tripping a breaker because it simply had too much connected load.

    RGar974417 wrote:
    I guess trailer manufacturer's don't follow the NEC because you're not allowed more than 8 general duty outlets on a 15 amp circuit.And kitchen and bath must be on separate circuits.


    Technically the kitchen and bathroom ARE on separate circuits. The outlet in the "kitchen" is the only one on the other circuit. All the other outlets are in the "living room" and "dining room" (Even though all the outlets are within 10' of each other in a giant open space in the main living area) and bedrooms. Those ones are all on the bathroom circuit.

    Hey at least everything is GFCI protected right?

    wa8yxm wrote:
    By the very same code there is a limit to the number of circuit breakers.. SO....

    What can you do? (And please do not ask me to answer that question).


    I'm guessing the limit on number of circuit breakers isn't going to be a limiting factor. I had 6, and now I have 7 (I added two but disabled the one because it had been tripped many times so I figured it would be getting weak.) There's still room in my panel for two more breakers even though the total is 100A worth of breakers but the trailer only has 30A service coming in.
  • wa8yxm's avatar
    wa8yxm
    Explorer III
    RGar974417 wrote:
    I guess trailer manufacturer's don't follow the NEC because you're not allowed more than 8 general duty outlets on a 15 amp circuit.And kitchen and bath must be on separate circuits.


    By the very same code there is a limit to the number of circuit breakers.. SO....

    What can you do? (And please do not ask me to answer that question).
  • Rgar is most likely right. I don't know about NEC but CEC here in Canda, states that a max of 12 devices (lights, outlets etc) are allowed in a circuit unless specific loads are known, allowing for more outlets.

    Not sure how CEC applies to RV's though. But I'm also thinking that from the description it sounds like multiple conductors are connected to a single breaker. This is also not allowed under CEC.
  • The RV builders use some latitude from the NEC although, if they want that RVIA sticker on the outside, all should be according to the NFSC.

    I don't see many kitchens in sticks and bricks that have 2 x 20 amp circuits split to a duplex receptacle and have never seen one in an RV. Never seen a 20 amp circuit in a dining area, either. There's probably dozens more that don't agree with NEC.

    I'm glad to see the post about how a low battery can affect a converter. There are many posts on the Forum about converters not operating and lights dimming, etc. Maybe this post will alert a few to the relationship between converter and battery.
  • An 8 outlet limit would not surprise me. People generally pay little attention to how they load up circuits and regs tend to try and protect us from ourselves. 8 outlets worth of average stuff probably is 12 amps or so (really gross average, but......)
  • RGar974417 wrote:
    I guess trailer manufacturer's don't follow the NEC because you're not allowed more than 8 general duty outlets on a 15 amp circuit.And kitchen and bath must be on separate circuits.


    I would like to see this rule because form what I've read, there's nothing in the NEC that limits the number of outlets on a circuit. You could have hundreds of them and be technically legal because empty outlets don't present any load.

    If I've somehow missed this rule please post a link to it in the NEC.
    Thank you.
  • I guess trailer manufacturer's don't follow the NEC because you're not allowed more than 8 general duty outlets on a 15 amp circuit.And kitchen and bath must be on separate circuits.
  • I guess trailer manufacturer's don't follow the NEC because you're not allowed more than 8 general duty outlets on a 15 amp circuit.And kitchen and bath must be on separate circuits.

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