RV industry death spiral...

"His real objective is to shine a light on those actions by the RV industry that hurt or are counterproductive to the health of the industry as a whole. This is laudable and needs to be done."

Well said!

It's not that easy to increase wages and give out bonuses. First things first are stockholders and people like rvers who want a return on their investment in their portfolio. We can all complain about minimum wage, CEO salaries, etc. but the bottom line is profit.

I doubt there are many rvers who don't shop at Walmart, or use the wifi at McDonald's over a cup of senior coffee. Why? People are cheap and they want things for next to nothing.

Using cheaper and lighter materials doesn't have to account for sloppy workmanship and rigs that leak because they weren't sealed properly to begin with.

I doubt you would buy a new car and take it for a leak test, smog inspection, etc. Why? Because there is regulation in the automotive industry. Above the frame on an rv, there is no regulation. That RVIA sticker doesn't mean squat.

After dealing with boats for a long time I know that unless you are DIY type person you are going to be very frustrated having to take it in for every little thing. I think RVs are even worse and if you aren't DIY inclined then I can see where the rants come from. Personally I'd rather fix something myself ( $100 or less )then take it in for warranty work. 1. because its a hassle 2. because I'm going to treat my rig better than the avg tech.

There are many ways to boost quality. Since there isn't the economy of scale auto makers have where having everything done by robot helps, the entire RV assembly has to be done my hand, but we have had companies and quality controls for a long time. Best way, have one round of work done, have it inspected and fixed by a different group, once it passes muster, do the second round, repeat. Have everyone on salary so the focus is not getting it done fast, but done well, especially if bonuses were given if warranty claims and sales were up to par.

I read about so many innovative things coming from RV parts makers... it would be nice to see those, be it cutting edge stuff, or just Seitz windows which are better than the common RV stuff we have in the US because they are double-paned.

SoundGuy wrote:

dewey02 wrote:
Edit: I see Gemsworld beat me to the answer. We agree that your basic assumption is incorrect.

You might want to read gemsworld's post again. ;) Seems you're confusing "quality" with technological advances ... of course product quality has improved as the industry is much more technologically advanced than it was in 1971. As gemsworld said, you're not paying for improvement in quality per se but for these dramatic advancements in technology, the net result of which is a natural improvement in quality ... and the effects of inflation. Tough concept to understand, eh? :S

I do not want to start a political debate here, but most of the rest of that price difference between a 1971 pickup and today's is due to government regulations - right, wrong or indifferent. The rest is inflation and, admit it, we're getting a WHOLE LOT better truck!

The Walmart reference is really not applicable. When we buy groceries at Walmart we're buying the same products we would buy at another grocery store for less money. More like competition between dealers for the same RV.

I think if RV manufacturers restructured the pay plans in their factories that quality improvements could be accomplished. If I were in charge I would pay a decent hourly wage with bonuses for exceeding production goals, but only if warranty claims also were below goal.

I think the condo can be well-made too, just that it costs a lot of money to do that. What I think is happening is the flashy, veneered condo is selling for a price point that would be inhabited by a smaller and more utilitarian RV built at high quality level.

I think some of your best built trailers are Casita and similar. Of course that won't suit everyone due to small size. Livin Lite makes some interesting aluminum trailers. For many people RVing is just one of many recreation activites they engage in. They could consider that they may not need a condo, that a smaller, easier to maintain RV would pay off in benefits even if they are cramped for space or have to adjust.

at what point did a "camper" turn into a condo on wheels? Expectations are high because the consumer wants to take his/her home with them and expect a vibrating / flexing mobile condo to be as solid / durable has a stick & brick home - well it's not and never will be. I would be willing to bet those that buy a low priced entry level trailer that is used for "camping" generally have a higher level of satisfaction than those buy a "glamping" rig.. just my take..fire away

I believe you can still buy a good RV. But it's like anything else,you get what you pay for. We had 2 Sunlines and would have bought another if they hadn't gone out of business when they were sold right before the 2008 recession. They were well made and if there was a problem, they took care of it. We currently have a 2015 Keystone Cougar. We have about 10,000 miles on it and knock on wood, we have had no major problems. The problems we had were small and I fixed them myself. We had problems with the RV dealer, but that's another story. But this is a $30,000 camper. If you buy a $14,000 trailer they have to cut costs some where.We used to go to the RV show in Harrisburg,Pa and looked at the various manufacturers. Without naming names,we saw the lack of quality in some. So we made our decision based on our research and ended up with some very good units.

JimK-NY wrote:
Manufacturers make units that appeal to women by duplicating some of the appearance of a fashionable house. That gets the unit sold and off the lot.

Perhaps... But ask any woman what they think of counter space on a kitchen counter, what storage space is like for clothing, why there is nowhere to put shoes at the entry door or where they heck do you put a garbage can? It seems like RVs are designed entirely by males. But I would say when a couple is looking at RVs at a dealer or RV show, it's the colors and bling that stand out for the male and female and not the things that really matter (and don't get discovered until you own it).

NoVa RT wrote:
I don't think the industry is in a death spiral, but from reading this forum for more than a decade and talking to other RVers, I think there is the potential for significant market disruption.

I agree with this. The time has never been better than now for an RV manufacturer to come along and introduce a market repositioning strategy to differentiate themselves. If they could market their product lineup so that their brand has a unique, credible and sustainable position in the marketplace IMO they'd have a good chance of taking a substantial part of sales away from competitors.

The primary thing that could shake up the industry is clearly quality. It's less about the quality of materials and components in the construction of an RV and more about quality of workmanship in the build process which is the one major area that needs a big change. A big question tho. is how to get the message out to consumers, especially those new to RV-ing.

In terms of towables, one example of a candidate for repositioning might be Northwood Manufacturing in Oregon. They're away from the prevailing mindset in Indiana, they already produce above average quality and they already have some excellent unique features (in-house built frame for ex.) so they are already somewhat differentiated. I've talked to their reps at RV shows a few times and their TTs just don't stand out from all the other brands on the floor and they don't use the word "quality".