Serious Trailer Sway at Times

Funny story about lack of tongue weight: neighbor across the road has a homemade flat deck utility trailer. He made it wrong...has zero to negative tongue weight ! Pulls awful until you put some weight at the front. Told him he should donate it to an engineering school for an example of how NOT to design a trailer !
We use it each fall for a homecoming parade float. Works pretty good at walking speed.....;)
( I have the kids build their float "heavy" at the front ! )

Yes and good points...not prudent to ignore tongue weight altogether, only that the HA and PP make sway control less dependent on tongue weight.

I may have bought a PP also if they were around when I bought the HA in 2002.

BurbMan wrote:


....snip...

For GMW, the HA and the Pro-Pride are the only hitches available that use a geometric design called a 4-bar linkage. It connects the trailer to the truck in such a way that the only way that the trailer can move side to side is by moving forward at the same time. When you are towing, the tension in the hitch created by the truck pulling the trailer keeps the trailer in a straight line without the need for any friction sway controls. Hence the reason tongue weight (or lack of) doesn't affect stability. There is a sticky at the top of the Travel Trailer forum called "Hensley Arrow: How it really works" that I would recommend, all of the engineering discussion is in that thread. In short, you in theory tow with 0 lb tongue weight but I wouldn't advise it...but I wouldn't hesitate at less than 10% either.

....snip.....

Yes, I do understand "how" pivot point projection hitches work, the only point I was trying to make was that from what I have heard about them is the correct way to set up a tow vehicle and trailer with either of those brands, is to have tongue weight.
That was the only point I was trying to get across, was that to state they ignore the presence of or lack of tongue weight in their sway control may be correct, but it may lead a beginner to think they can buy that hitch, then set up the trailer with zero tongue weight.
There are sometimes beginners that think they can fudge on buying a "adequate tow vehicle" if they simply "balance" the trailer as though it's a teeter-totter to minimize tongue weight.
Controlling sway is not the only reason we use tongue weight.

There is no doubt the ha-ha and the propride are awesome hitching solutions. If I had a "problem vehicle-trailer combo" then I would certainly consider one ( probably the propride, if I were spending the money ).

Claude B wrote:

dodge guy wrote:
Yep 1200 lbs minimum. my 35 foot TT weighs 9200 lbs and has a loaded TW of 1200 lbs. I have it setup so I have that much TW with 4 bikes on the back. when leaving for a trip everything is great. Coming home after I use up all the beer and pop that I keep up front, and all the clothes that we use from our front bedroom are now in the basket in the rear, the trailer has a slight sway. I always need to move the dirty clothes up front along with the remaining things in the cooler. just that small amount of weight can make a huge difference! it took many trips to get it to tow properly. and I did it with a Reese Dual Cam. take your time to get it set up properly. you can buy a HA or a PP, but then you`ll just have an expensive improperly setup hitch! and get that receiver swapped out for a good one.

With all respect Dodge Guy, if just mooving your dirty clothes and the cooler, make a ''huge'' difference for a TT of that weight and size, you are really on the edge and so border line. It's like playing the Russian roulette. In a emergency manoever like a fast lane change to avoid debris or anything else on the road, you may end up like this one :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wMkK_DVzjo

Yes, a HA is expensive ($3K) but how worth the rest of your combo ?

With a SUV and a 34' TT, it's the only system that will save your a... in a emergency situation.

Actually i have done an emergency lane change! In GA around 65mph! And because i know my trailer and have it set up properly there was absolutely no drama. Just had to put some clothes back on some shelves. Now if it wasn't setup propely then the outcome may have been different! And yes 100-200lbs can and will make a big difference. That is why you should always be aware of what you are towing!

This is a pic of our old TT, a Sunnybrook 3310. Note the large cargo door, there was one in the back and one on the other side as well. The entire area under the 4 bunks was open space side to side and the whole length of the bunk area.





Needless to say managing tongue weight was a real challenge...we packed that space with lawn chairs, BBQ, toys, you name it. One trip in this rig and the Hensley Arrow was on order.

There are many folks that call the HA a "band-aid", and state that a properly designed and loaded trailer should not sway. That is true, except that not all trailers are designed with weight/balance as a priority...the floor plan is king in today's market.

For GMW, the HA and the Pro-Pride are the only hitches available that use a geometric design called a 4-bar linkage. It connects the trailer to the truck in such a way that the only way that the trailer can move side to side is by moving forward at the same time. When you are towing, the tension in the hitch created by the truck pulling the trailer keeps the trailer in a straight line without the need for any friction sway controls. Hence the reason tongue weight (or lack of) doesn't affect stability. There is a sticky at the top of the Travel Trailer forum called "Hensley Arrow: How it really works" that I would recommend, all of the engineering discussion is in that thread. In short, you in theory tow with 0 lb tongue weight but I wouldn't advise it...but I wouldn't hesitate at less than 10% either.

For the OP, I also agree with the comment that you are pushing the envelope weight-wise with that trailer, it's a big unit to be towing with a relatively short-wheelbase Burb. Using an HA or ProPride will enable you to manage tongue weight to keep it below the 1000 lb limit on the receiver, without worries about sway and control.

I just added a truck toolbox on the back of the TT and am not concerned about tongue weight effects as much as I would need to be with a conventional hitch. Our TT is 32' and I typically tow at 65-70 with two fingers on the wheel...wind, passing semis, uneven road, nothing makes the rig even wiggle let alone sway.

dodge guy wrote:
Yep 1200 lbs minimum. my 35 foot TT weighs 9200 lbs and has a loaded TW of 1200 lbs. I have it setup so I have that much TW with 4 bikes on the back. when leaving for a trip everything is great. Coming home after I use up all the beer and pop that I keep up front, and all the clothes that we use from our front bedroom are now in the basket in the rear, the trailer has a slight sway. I always need to move the dirty clothes up front along with the remaining things in the cooler. just that small amount of weight can make a huge difference! it took many trips to get it to tow properly. and I did it with a Reese Dual Cam. take your time to get it set up properly. you can buy a HA or a PP, but then you`ll just have an expensive improperly setup hitch! and get that receiver swapped out for a good one.

With all respect Dodge Guy, if just mooving your dirty clothes and the cooler, make a ''huge'' difference for a TT of that weight and size, you are really on the edge and so border line. It's like playing the Russian roulette. In a emergency manoever like a fast lane change to avoid debris or anything else on the road, you may end up like this one :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wMkK_DVzjo

Yes, a HA is expensive ($3K) but how worth the rest of your combo ?

With a SUV and a 34' TT, it's the only system that will save your a... in a emergency situation.

Yep 1200 lbs minimum. my 35 foot TT weighs 9200 lbs and has a loaded TW of 1200 lbs. I have it setup so I have that much TW with 4 bikes on the back. when leaving for a trip everything is great. coming home after I use up all the beer and pop that I keep up front, and all the clothes that we use from our front bedroom are now in the basket in the rear, the trailer has a slight sway. I always need to move the dirty clothes up front along with the remaining things in the cooler. just that small amount of weight can make a huge difference! it took many trips to get it to tow properly. and I did it with a Reese Dual Cam. take your time to get it set up properly. you can buy a HA or a PP, but then you`ll just have an expensive improperly setup hitch! and get that receiver swapped out for a good one.

With a 1000# TW limit the 2014 2500 Burb is simply not rated to tow a trailer that large. The TW of that trailer needs to be in the 1200# range

A 35' TT is way, way, way too much for a Suberban with a standard WDH and I don't care if it is a 2500 3/4 ton with a ''tow capacity'' of over 10,000 lbs. You can try to tune the TT with moving weight, add tongue weight, retuned your wdh, etc., the problem is with the Suberban himself. It has an excessive overhang (distance from the rear axle to the ball) vs the WB. Do what you want, it will never be a stable tow vehicule with a TT of that lenght.

A Hensley Arrow (or Pro-Pride) WDH is your only solution to be safe.

Agreed on the Sway Control Hitch. On my past 3 TT's, I have used Reese's Dual Cam Anti Sway set up...excellent system - does the job verty well.

Having the proper tongue weight is equally important. Load your unit with an eye to weight distribution througout the trailer..if need be add some weight to the front storage - go dual 6 Volts on the tongue..anything to add some weight if you suspect that is what is causing this issue.