Skilled RV workers.

bikendan wrote:
Also note the drug testing issue.
Combine skilled workers with no drug history and low wages and you can see why there's a hiring issue.

I worked at a plant (not the rv industry) that was hiring skilled labor at a very high rare of pay. Even with the high pay and skilled labor requirement drug testing was the leading reason people weren't hired. You'd be surprised just how many couldn't pass a drug test.

I wonder what the pay is? I always hear a lot of talk from people who wouldn't do the job themselves for the given pay. Probably not much of a retirement program or health care either. They probably want skilled trades workers at minimum wage prices along with quotas so that means the line doesn't stop when you run into the part that doesn't exactly want to go together correctly. Just shoot the screw in or shoot it with a dozen staples and let it go.

I've worked in an environment like that. The guy who half arses it together with crossed threads is a hero where as the guy who is going to helicoil it and fix it right before moving on is a "problem".

This is a pic of new Jayco FW wiring that I took last week. They didn't even use a cheesy hammer crimp, they just used a hammer on the cable lugs. Jayco seemed to always be good quality years ago. What a mess.

This isn't a blame the worker issue, this is a company that doesn't even own a $35.00 Chinese hydraulic crimp tool? WTH is with that? If they did own the tool and had instructed the worker then where is the quality control inspector? Push push push.

jplante4 wrote:
There's a limit to the size of the market for high end campers and motor homes. That limit is set by the number of people who can afford it. In order to grow your business, you need to stop catering only to the well-to-do and produce a product that can be obtained by middle class consumers, who have a wide range of choices on what to do with their disposable income. While Thurston Howell III will nickel and dime you over quality, penny wise consumers are only worried about price and bang for the buck. This explains the current state of the airline industry, and the same complaints are happening there. People pick flights by price only, then complain about the lack of leg room.

Manufacturers have no choice but to cut corners. They can't cut energy costs, taxes or cost of some materials (everyone pays the same for a Freightliner chassis). The only way to cut employee costs is to let people go, and when you do that you cut capacity, making things worse. Quality of material and craftsmanship are easy things to cut. It would happen in the airline industry if the FAA hadn't set at least minimum certification standards for airplanes.

If the quality is that bad, consumers should spent their recreational dollar on other things or the higher quality RVs. The makers of the junk will go away.

Loan me about $50,000 and I'll pick up the rest so I can afford to get one of those perfect built RV's you speak of.
RVs are no different than anything else out there for sale. There's a reason that you have the option to by a Fiat 500 or a Lexus. Not everyone's rolling in dough like you.
A big part of the problem is the economy is good right now. Enough people are working and feeling comfortable enough to go out and buy an RV. Plus more and more older folks are retiring and looking to get an RV. All RV MFGs are running at full speed right now. Hence the need for bodies. It's not like there's a bunch of experienced RV assemblers sitting at home like in 2008-9 from the recession.
I was in commercial construction for 30 years. When things go slow we laid off the less skilled. When things picked up they got hired back.
The other issue is the way RV are built. It's a 70s style of construction and labor technics. More automation would help alleviate human mistakes. But it's still humans doing most of the assembly.
I guess if we did it your way and eliminated all the low to mid range models then the MFGs could layoff most of their workers, which would weed out the lesser skilled and then the best worker would just be building those perfect RVs you talk about. My guess is that RV sales would drop about 90% by doing that.

Buying a disposable RV is false economy. You are better off spending your hard earned dollars on a quality used unit. Too many consumers are wowed by the 3 televisions and electric toilet flushers, but nobody wants to look a chip board construction, throw in the need to get the rock bottom price at all costs and then wonder where the quality went.

As previous posters have said this resembles the automotive industry of the 70's. As long as consumers demand rock bottom quality, oops, I meant prices, skilled workers will go where their skill is appreciated (read $$$)

A key phrase in that article is this one in my way of thinking.
" It does present a challenge for us in getting them trained so they can then work at an incentive pace in the manufacturing environment,snip..."

Note the phrase "incentive pace"! We have toured the Jayco factory twice and both times have been stunned by the fast pace the workers maintain. In the frame section, they literally run around, and tools and other parts are flying in every direction. I wondered if they have a bad safety record!

In another part of the factory, they needed to have a hole in the side wall for some wires. The worker grabbed a hammer and simply smashed/punched that hole. No need for using a hole saw that would leave a nice even cut hole!:R

They have "incentive" to work at that pace because when they have built a certain number of units they can go home and work on the farm. It is no wonder the quality of new RV's is so low.
Barney

BarneyS wrote:
A key phrase in that article is this one in my way of thinking.
" It does present a challenge for us in getting them trained so they can then work at an incentive pace in the manufacturing environment,snip..."

Note the phrase "incentive pace"! We have toured the Jayco factory twice and both times have been stunned by the fast pace the workers maintain. In the frame section, they literally run around, and tools and other parts are flying in every direction. I wondered if they have a bad safety record!

In another part of the factory, they needed to have a hole in the side wall for some wires. The worker grabbed a hammer and simply smashed/punched that hole. No need for using a hole saw that would leave a nice even cut hole!:R

They have "incentive" to work at that pace because when they have built a certain number of units they can go home and work on the farm. It is no wonder the quality of new RV's is so low.
Barney

And, they are not getting paid that much either. So, why should they do a good job when they are told to go as fast as they can and nobody cares if they do a bad job and they get the same amount of money either way .

It's only going to get worse.

Someone mentioned the auto industry and how quality got better when foreign competition came in. Maybe so. But, there is now no auto industry left here anymore so that was a high price to pay.

3oaks wrote:

jplante4 wrote:
There's a limit to the size of the market for high end campers and motor homes. That limit is set by the number of people who can afford it. In order to grow your business, you need to stop catering only to the well-to-do and produce a product that can be obtained by middle class consumers, who have a wide range of choices on what to do with their disposable income. While Thurston Howell III will nickel and dime you over quality, penny wise consumers are only worried about price and bang for the buck. This explains the current state of the airline industry, and the same complaints are happening there. People pick flights by price only, then complain about the lack of leg room.

Manufacturers have no choice but to cut corners. They can't cut energy costs, taxes or cost of some materials (everyone pays the same for a Freightliner chassis). The only way to cut employee costs is to let people go, and when you do that you cut capacity, making things worse. Quality of material and craftsmanship are easy things to cut. It would happen in the airline industry if the FAA hadn't set at least minimum certification standards for airplanes.

If the quality is that bad, consumers should spent their recreational dollar on other things or the higher quality RVs. The makers of the junk will go away.

I disagree with most of your statements. What you offer is excuses to continue sub-par RV manufacturing. Everyone is not as affluent as you and cannot afford to purchase the best of everything. Airline transportation or RVs.

What is lacking in the RV industry is foreign competition. When the U.S. auto manufactures built us junk in the '70s, foreign competitors stepped in with better quality vehicles forcing our own U.S. manufactures to change their ways in a hurry.

I have no idea how you inferred from my post that I'm affluent. I'm driving a 20 year old bus around that I do most of the work on myself. It is however a high quality motor home and not some piece of junk paper bag bus you see at Camping World. And there in lies the problem. You see it here all the time.

"I want a new motor home/camper because I'm too spoiled/stupid to deal with something that someone else has already had".

Well then, if you buy a cheap piece of ****, you get what you deserve. Don't complain about quality if you paid bottom dollar for your rig.


And I had a late 60's Toyota. It was a piece of do-do.

CavemanCharlie wrote:
Someone mentioned the auto industry and how quality got better when foreign competition came in. Maybe so. But, there is now no auto industry left here anymore so that was a high price to pay.

I did. And the U.S. auto manufacturers have no one to blame but themselves. :S

BarneyS wrote:
A key phrase in that article is this one in my way of thinking.
" It does present a challenge for us in getting them trained so they can then work at an incentive pace in the manufacturing environment,snip..."

Note the phrase "incentive pace"! We have toured the Jayco factory twice and both times have been stunned by the fast pace the workers maintain. In the frame section, they literally run around, and tools and other parts are flying in every direction. I wondered if they have a bad safety record!

In another part of the factory, they needed to have a hole in the side wall for some wires. The worker grabbed a hammer and simply smashed/punched that hole. No need for using a hole saw that would leave a nice even cut hole!:R

They have "incentive" to work at that pace because when they have built a certain number of units they can go home and work on the farm. It is no wonder the quality of new RV's is so low.
Barney

Incentive----------also know as 'piece work' and 'quota'

Each day a quota is set...so many of certain model and workers are paid based on number of 'items/components' installed.
Hence the running and throwing going on. AND if quota met by 1pm or 4pm pay is same based on 'piece'

Back in mid 70s I installed window frames in new home construction.

Had to wrap window and nail frame in window opening. Got $3 an opening.
First started I did roughly 20 openings. Would carefully wrap opening, set frame, square it & nail it. Finishing up around 4pm. Then fighting the traffic jam getting home and at end of week $280-$300


2 weeks later I was knocking out close to 40 openings and leaving by 2pm.....beating the traffic jam & getting $600+

Incentive!!